Author Topic: GBL: Once removed rxn + purification  (Read 2003 times)

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18294

  • Guest
GBL: Once removed rxn + purification
« on: April 12, 2004, 11:23:00 PM »
Once removed brand nail polish remover contains gamma butyrolcatone, a precursor to GHB (liquid x). It also contains Bitrex (Denatonium Benzoate) to prevent consumption. This is how SWIM plans to clean it:

1. React with NaOH to form GHB (see end of post)
2. filter with activated charcoal
3. distill off final product with SWIM's handy Kenmore water distiller.


SWIM has done a bit of research, and beleives this would work. SWIM has founf the melting point of bitrex to be at 166 - 170 C. this is well above the BP of GBL and GHB.

SWIM will let you all know how it turns out!
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UPDATE: SWIM originally posted this elsewhere, but now knows it must be distilled more than once to get all the bitrex out.

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hers is the rxn swim uses: (SWIM got this rxn from someone else and takes no credit for it):

SWIM uses the rhodium method...adjusted weights/measurement ratios are as follows:

1 bottle of OR
15 grams NaOH
40ml distilled water

equipment used in this example:

2 pyrex measuring cups - target sells pyrex for sure
candy thermometer - walmart 2.99 - in w the spatulas and such
4 coffee filters
activated carbon - walmart aquarium section 4.99-5.99 - goes miles
strainer of some kind - walmart - just get one that will fit in pyrex cup
ph test strips - home depot or any pool supply store 7.99-10.99 for 50
strips

this is a very basic exothermic(read HOT) reaction - eye
protection...wear it - if you are in a tight space wearing even just a
paper mask is a good idea...your lungs will thank you

rule of thumb for this method is ABS(always be stirring) - you can just
stir it with the candy thermometer just keep in mind it is thin glass

combine your NaOH and water and stir until it becomes clear - temp
should be somewhere around 150f at this point

add 1/3 to 1/2 of a bottle of OR at a time and stir until you get the
big pink goo balls then add more - dont pour too much in too fast, you
dont want it to boil over on you or solidify - watch your temp - keep it
under 200f

stir stir stir remember ABS

once you have it all combined heat it to around 200-215f for 5-10 minutes

your house will stink of perfume

let it cool then strain it through the carbon into your other pyrex cup

for every 1oz of OR you use you should have approx 2oz of final product
- if you came up way short add some more water to make up for the
difference then either heat and stir for a bit longer or put it in your
bottle and shake the hell out of it for a minute or two

dosage should be roughly 5ml or 1 tspn - a dose cup from a bottle of
nyquil or pepto works nicely

this shit is dangerous it is better to take too little than too much

try 3ml first

a 5ml dose will last a 170lb person approx 3-4 hours

IMPORTANT -  read this shit ummmmkay?

Avoiding slipping into a 24/7 habit:

learn your dosage - take that amount then wait 4 hours before you take
the next dose(6 hours if possible)

it is very easy to think you are not as fucked up as you really are

take your last dose of the day 4-6 hours before you plan on going to
bed...if you dont you will prob find yourself wide awake an hour after
going to sleep

then you take more OR to go to sleep and thus begins the viscious cycle

believe me you dont want to go down this road

If any 24/7 users want to know a detox method for this crap let me know.

Good Luck All

Please remember, just because someone took the time to write something
and post it on the internet it does NOT make it true.

Be safe - always research what you read on the net.


DrLucifer

  • Guest
Gbl concentration?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2004, 06:46:00 AM »
Just out of curiosity mate, how much gbl is actually in that nail polish remover?
A truly clandestine procedure, im sure it will be welcomed.
However, you wouldnt catch me dead drinking it  8)


Novice

  • Guest
Better way of doing it.
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2004, 10:02:00 PM »
If you are positive the nails polish thingy contains nothing but GBL and Bitrex, then you don't need to go through all that to get it drinkable...

Since Bitrex when used as a denaturating agent comes in the form av a salt, all you have to do is distill the GBL and collect the goodies. Bitrex will stay in the distilling flask.

If you want to make sure the Bitrex is in form of the salt, acidify the mixture with a small amount of a strong acid and then distill. This will free the benzoic acid in the Bitrex-benzoate (if it is the salt of benzoic acid, which it usually is), but no worries, as long as you don't collect the distillate above 205 °C there shouldn't be any acid in it.

18294

  • Guest
percent gbl
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2004, 10:43:00 PM »
It contains 99 percent gbl, and is reasonably clean. The rest is made up of vitamin E, cellulose, and colouring.

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SWIM decided to basify first becasue his kenmore water distiller is metal on the inside and the spout comes into contact with plastic. SWIM knows that the charcoal absorbs some of the bitrex, from past pre- distilling dreams.

SWIM found that he needs to distill twice because the bitrex can be tasted in very small amounts... boy that shitrex tastes nasty. YUCK!

But you better hurry if you want OR, btw. It is getting harder to find. PM me and I can tell you where it is available, if you live on the west coast.

AquiAprender

  • Guest
My 2 Cents
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2004, 05:53:00 AM »
I've posted about this before and listed the full ingredients, but got no replies on how to theoretically purify it.

It contains:Butyrolactone, hydroxypropylcellulose, Aloe, Tocopheryl Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Denatonium Benzoate (bitrex), Fragrance, D&C Red #33.

It is indeed around 95% GBL.  All the other ingredients are pretty much non-volatile with the exception of "fragrance".

SWIM has vacuum distilled it, and other than a tiny bit that came over first at lower temps which was discarded, pretty much the whole deal came over within 2-3 degrees C, right around the BP of GBL.  What you get it a clear liquid which has all the properties of GBL except that damned fragrance which seems to come over no matter what.  SWIM does not know how to get rid of it.  What remains in the distilling flask is red colored gunk which if you saw it you would realize how scary it is that people drink this straight (see Google groups for the whole story).

When SWIM reacted the distilled product with NaOH, it indeed behaved like pure GBL.  SWIM did a bit of steam distilling to see if he could get rid of that god-awful fragrance, but no luck.  He then dissolved the NaGHB in a bit of water and vacuum distilled the solution because he was pissed, and he ended up with nothing but burnt GHB - nothing came over at all even though the NaGHB got up to 180C.  Under SWIMs somewhat poor vacuum that means anything boiling up to 300C or so should have come over.

Upon finally trying the GHB, SWIM found it acted just like any other NaGHB, and does not seem to have any negative side effects, but it smells and tastes WRONG as SWIM has made NaGHB from 99.9% GBL and knows what it should smell and tatse like.

SWIM would be very grateful to anyone who could help him get rid of "fragrance".  Maybe fractional distillation?  It seems that even the tiniest bit of this fragrance is enough to make the product smell very strongly.

Chromic

  • Guest
Nope!
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2004, 03:06:00 PM »
Distill the GBL, you'll get the fragrance + GBL. React with NaHCO3 & water (or A.C.S. NaOH and water). Then you can try and remove the stink.

First, distill off the water. That should remove a good amount of the fragrance... then two suggestions:

1) boil the NaGHB in activated charcoal, filter, wash the activated charcoal with water.
2) boil the NaGHB in acetone... cool, filter...

Repeat 1 or 2 until the smell of the fragrance is mostly gone (depending on what works better)

As long as it's not much fragrance, it won't hurt you.

You can't distill NaGHB, btw, no matter how good your vacuum.

AquiAprender

  • Guest
Thanks Chromic
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2004, 08:28:00 PM »
Yes SWIM know you can't distill NaGHB, but since SWIM has had no formal chemistry training whatsoever, his somewhat basic level thought process was that if any of this "fragrance" came over in the 1st distill and was (obviusly) still remaining with the NaGHB, perhaps vacuum distilling would allow the fragrance to come over leaving the NaGHB.

Since NaGHB is solid at room temp SWIM dissolved it in water, plopped in a stir bar, and away he went.  Water came over and when finished stir bar trapped in solid NaGHB (try not to laugh too hard at SWIM he learns as he goes).  Upon more heating, NaGHB melts, stirring continues, nothing comes over.  If fragrance was volatile and distilled in the first run - why wouldn't it distill and escape the melted NaGHB in the second run?  SWIM apparently is not understanding this right.

Anyway, SWIM will take your suggestions and appreciate the input as the flowery fragrance is more than SWIM can bare.

Sifty

  • Guest
Chromic, In your advice, how do you get rid of
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2004, 09:37:00 AM »
Chromic,

In your advice, how do you get rid of the bitrex? You are boiling off the water and as much fragrance as you can, but the rest is left behind. W/o a distillation, will the bitrex be removed?

Are you suggesting that acetone washes and/or activated charcoal should be enough to get rid of the denaturant?

-Shifty


Chromic

  • Guest
purification
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2004, 08:03:00 AM »
Bitrex is not volatile, it will be removed by distillation.

Fragrance cannot be removed by distillation alone, even just a few mg of the stuff will be so much as to overwhelm the senses. I never recommended acetone washes... just a distillation and treating with activated charcoal. Try it, it'll likely work wonders.

AquiAprender

  • Guest
Chromic is right
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2004, 07:30:00 AM »
Sifty, don't know if you read my posts, but SWIM did indeed distill this, and the bitrex stays in the distillation flask and does not come over, along with the color, hydroxypropylcellulose, aloe, etc..  What comes over is really almost pure GBL + some small amount of fragrance.  SWIM also tried the acetone idea and it makes the product better but does not eliminate the fragrance completely.  But the taste & smell is more like what SWIM would expect.

Activated charcoal is next.  The smell of fragrance is so strong when boiling off water from the NaGHB, SWIM wonders if maybe just dripping in hot water for a long while and continuing boiling might not end up getting rid of pretty much all fragrance.  Regardless, if you collect the distilled product in the GBL BP range (where most all of it comes over), what you get it 99% GBL, SWIM has proven this by titration with NaOH.  It acts just like pure GBL...except the fragrance smell.

ning

  • Guest
Yeah.....
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2004, 06:23:00 PM »
Steam distill the stuff....not a bad idea...
As we know, many essential oils can be steam distilled. But probably the Na GHB isn't going anywhere.


littlejasebee

  • Guest
I had a try about 6 months ago
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2004, 02:09:00 PM »
I had a try about 6 months ago to remover that nice little Fragrance , and found a distillation and treating with activated charcoal to work well after 3 goes .

I would like to hear from other Bee's if they have had better luck with removing it ( The Fragrance ) .

It's still a lot of work for a 30 ml bottle       ::)     .


Littlejase        :)        .


18294

  • Guest
Only one?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2004, 04:23:00 AM »
SWIM wouldn't bother doing all of that with just one bottle. THe % yeild will get better as you do more. You lose alot in the charcoal and residue in the distiller for just one.

btw, SWIM hears OR isn't available in some parts of the country anymore?