Author Topic: Destroying everything for emergencies  (Read 2174 times)

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12cheman12

  • Guest
Destroying everything for emergencies
« on: September 02, 2004, 06:10:00 AM »
swim was thinking he should keep a bottle of bleach by so incase he ever gets that knock at the door he can poor it over anything increminating hoping it will destroy it beyond any forensics labs recognition.
swims mostly talking about pseudo and meth.

will bealch do the job? or does anyone have any other suggestions.


2benubee

  • Guest
bleach cleaning
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2004, 08:59:00 AM »
Cheman I have read that this works well with coke (use that well known search engine we all love ), but as i live in Oz coke is not the sort of thing i have ever tried to destroy !! ::) I have pondered this myself and figured out that it would be worth a try if you get the chance :o but the way i see it you won't have time you won't get a knock, the door will come down at the worst moment and you would not even have time to open the child proof lid on the bleach bottle, but the idea is sound :)  :)  :)


12cheman12

  • Guest
its kewl mate, dun have to tell swim bout coke
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 09:07:00 AM »
its kewl mate, dun have to tell swim bout coke in oz... he lives in oz too.

When swims are dreaming theres like usually just one flask with goods in it or one container holding pseudo or what not, in worst case scenario swim is thinking just throw the whole shebang into a bucket full of something to destroy it all, like u said u might not even get that chance, but i bet ya you move at the speed of light when they come in and even if they see you doing it doesnt matta cuz all evidence destroyed!

better to have more safety options than not ay.


chilly_willy

  • Guest
try this..
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2004, 09:27:00 AM »
1.  Keep all precursors in one spot (near sink).  Unpackage, and de-label everything beforehand..so there are no boxes/bottles/etc. that indicate what you might be doing.  Black trashbags!! Dump precursors before anything else!!
2.  Get a 5 gal bucket and fill it about half way with +50% sulfuric acid.  Leave this bucket near work area so all glassware or equipment can be pitched in if you get the nock.  You really should have this regardless..as acid baths work wonders at cleaning glassware.
3.  Do NOT store used solvents!!  Either distill it right away..or pitch it.  If you have 400ml solvent and -1% amine in there....you dont realize it...but in the laws eyes you have near 400g amine.  Depending on where you are..over 90g is trafficking which carries a sentence of around 10 years with no chance of parole.  Im not trying to scare anyone here..but those are the facts.
4.  Purposely store bulk chemicals in the wrong packaging.  For example:  Nitromethane-paint thinner can.  Muriatic acid -bleach bottle... etc..

Thats about all I can think of off hand.  I am sure there are many other tips that others can contribute..


SpamIam

  • Guest
To get that dreaded knock,means your door...
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2004, 06:32:00 PM »
To get that dreaded knock,means your door blows down and here comez the cops! They come at nite, with machine pistols,and million watt flashlites.

Dude dont keep anything illegal in your pad,cause when they come, they catch you when they know your not expecting it! Thats there job,and they do it well.But if its local LE, you got a better chance then if its the DEA.

Just my thoughts though
S.I.A.


ChemoSabe

  • Guest
In an early version Fester book
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2004, 08:22:00 PM »
On a similar note here's a funny exerpt from the tail end of the "Industrial Scale Production" chapter of Festers old SOMM 4th edition.

--------------------------------------------------------
A nice addition to any underground laboratory is a self destruct device. This consists of a few sticks of dynamite armed with a blasting cap held inside an easily opened metal can. The purpose of the metal can is to prevent small accidental fires from initiating the self-destruct sequence.

If Johnny Law pays an unexpected visit to his lab the underground chemist lights the fuse and dives out the window. The resulting blast will shatter all glass chemical containers and set the chemicals on fire. This fire will destroy all the evidence. (and you'll be completely in the clear) {my own verbal embellishment}
-----------------------------

I can't help but crack up laughing at this. If illustrated in the right way this particular passage would make for some highly entertaining comic book panels.


Tdurden969

  • Guest
Your sig goes with that post very well Chemo.
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2004, 12:37:00 AM »
Your sig goes with that post very well Chemo.

While this is not a bad idea (having a strong oxidizer or such around for emergencies)

Of course a soup of decomposition products is better than them finding a kilo of naughty substance, and a good lawyer could use the possible doubt of the identity of the original stuff to your advantage, don't rely on it to get you off.

I do know I have read a case or three where the degradation products were key evidence for conviction.


Lestat

  • Guest
Expensive maybe, but how about a perxenate...
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2004, 12:49:00 AM »
Expensive maybe, but how about a perxenate solution to destroy utterly whatever was being processed, being an unusual compound might help keep the investigators on their toes.

Sodium perxenate is one of the strongest oxidisers known apparently, my guess is it would rip a new arse for whatever incriminating substance(s) were dumped in it leaving some intractable black tar, having said that, I wouldn't bee too surprised if it deflagrated on contact with organic matter ;D


Snakebyte

  • Guest
I wouldn't delabel and put chemicals in the...
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2004, 12:56:00 AM »
I wouldn't delabel and put chemicals in the wrong package no matter how good your memory is.  That could be as potentially dangerous as getting caught and probably more likely.  Besides, do you actually think you would fool any agent because of different or no labeling?


chilly_willy

  • Guest
Snake..
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2004, 01:30:00 AM »
Snakebyte, what are the potential dangers you are talking about?  Can you elaborate?  Also, you CAN fool them if you think like them.  Its on par with the art of smuggling dope.  No big difference.  Example; People have been shipping sassy with fake labels for years and years.  Does it get thru?  Yes.


yei

  • Guest
a thermite might be your best bet.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 10:59:00 PM »
perhaps a thermite, placed in a pit in the ground, over a mixture of fluffy wood chips and potassium nitrate and/or sulfur. A grille of chicken wire would cover this pit or bucket. Assuming one had a short while to act before the cops burst in, amine, ketone, and other incriminating products could be dumped in this hole and the thermite started (electrically), while one did the best job to hit the hills. The wood chips would soak up the organics, while the thermite and oxidizer would non-explosively do a job on the compounds one sought to destroy. It's certain one would still get busted, however, with the glassware smashed and most of the product destroyed, LE would have a much more difficult time proving how much you were making. This would probably cut much off one's sentence.

I think a special sink that went directly to the sewer, bypassing sink traps would be better in this respect. If one kept a scrupulously clean lab and had an oxidizer bath handy, it's possible one could avoid being caught with anything (i.e. only "pink-handed"). Wouldn't count on it, though.

If it were me, I'd avoid explosives. Kill or injure cops, and you will be impaled. Rather counterproductive....

Make analogs only for personal consumption instead. Give them a hard time to prove anything.


Snakebyte

  • Guest
Shipping sassy with fake labels is not what we
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 12:59:00 AM »
Shipping sassy with fake labels is not what we were talking about.  I assumed the dreaded knock at the door would have been tipped cops or agents in which case they would have searched ANY bottles or packages including your food and everthing else in the house.  Do you think an agent who has been tipped will look at your unmarked bottles or bottles with different labels and say "gee, i can't find any methylamine, sodium borohydride, or MDP2P" and leave your house just because the label is wrong?  As far as the dangers of mistaking chemicals for each other, I suppose it would depend on what chemicals someone had in his lab but how about fire, explosion, toxic gas, acid being splashed around when one doesn't remember it's acid, etc?


ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Explosive Measures
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2004, 01:26:00 AM »
I only included the bit about the explosives as an example of ridiculous measures to go to.

I'm still not certain if the original author of that material was serious or not.


mr_pyrex

  • Guest
Something to keep in mind
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2004, 08:22:00 AM »
Here is something that you might want to keep in mind, it is something a very wise person once said-Matter is neither created nor destroyed-it is only changed from one form to another (or something to that effect).  What you should get from that, is the FACT that no matter what you do short of vaporizing it entirely they will be able to reverse engineer whatever you have done to conceal your activities.
  True it might take them some time and it might cost some taxpayer's dollars...but you can rest assured they will figure it out in the end.  Besides if they come busting down your door you can be pretty darn sure that they already have full knowledge of what you are doing anyhow...I mean I don't think they just go around randomly kicking in doors hoping to find a lab by chance.  Maybe sometime back when science wasn't as advanced as it is now, it might have been beyond their capabilities, but today not a chance.
  I mean take for example when the federal building was blown up with a rental truck...you'd figure there would be no chance anything would be left of the rental van....well they were able to recover the vin tag and that was at ground zero.  Like that person said-Nothing gets destroyed, it just changes forms (oh yeah one exception to the rule- a nuclear fission device).  But I wouldn't suggest you use that route to conceal things or you'll have alot bigger problems then trying to conceal your activities ;-).   Pyrex out of fission devices ;-)


ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Manufacturing + Arson
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2004, 09:19:00 AM »
Well if you are enough of an idiot to buy into the idea of blowing everything to smithereens and they don't happen to try nailing you for any sort of manufacturing charge, which is highly unlikely, they'll for sure be nailing you for some form of arson. But the odds really are that you'll actually charged be with _both_.

Although they still might be somewhat stupid, the investigators for these sorts of things aren't as stupid as they used to be.


Trenchcoat

  • Guest
If it's coming down to that I think that it...
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2004, 09:58:00 AM »
If it's coming down to that I think that it will only add a destruction of evidence charge to your troubles. There is a point in the law that states if you run or destroy evidence while being accosted you're more suspicious. Just try to stay out of trouble in the first place and do not trust any shady tweaker people.