Author Topic: Zn nitropropenes rdxn: no way  (Read 2169 times)

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Sunlight

  • Guest
Zn nitropropenes rdxn: no way
« on: May 07, 2002, 05:41:00 PM »
I made a small test of Zn/HCl rdxn of 3,4 DMP2NP with a friend. The rxn behaves in a similar way to the nitrostyrene rdxn, but after too much time, my friend reported me a very low yield, 5-10 % (don't remeber exactly). I've read in the Hive a failure form Ritter with P2NP, and Antoncho told that a friend got nothing from 2,5 DMP2NP.
I was resistant to believe it (excuse me friends) and I made a test with 2 gr. of 3,4,5 TMP2NP, and apparently teh rxn went fine, but workup gave a ridiculous amount of crystalline powder, it's not worth to filter, weight and then make the mp to see if it's really the desired amine. Unfortunately, we can conclude that the rxn does not work at all or gives unacceptable low yields.

zed

  • Guest
Hi Sunlight!
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2002, 03:44:00 PM »
Long time past, zed and friends tried many, many, many techniques for reducing said materials to amines. Other than LAlH4, none were very satisfactory. Finally gave up, and settled for reducing Nitro-propenylbenzenes to P2Ps, via catalytic Pt/H2 in acid solution. This worked well!

As for 3,4,5-TMA, I have read reports of a tendency to violent behavior associated with this substance. Have you heard this? Do you have an opinion?

Regards.............................zed

Antibody2

  • Guest
sad to hear
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2002, 05:37:00 PM »
Zn/Hg amalgum? is this the same story or has it been used to reduce nitropropene sucessfully?

Rhodium

  • Guest
Violent Chemicals
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2002, 06:14:00 PM »
Zed: Yes, that property of TMA is documented in Pihkal, and also one of Shulgin's articles in Nature.

zed

  • Guest
Thank you R!
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2002, 07:17:00 PM »
I thought so. I just mentioned it because Sunlight seemed to be having a dream in which he/or she, was attempting to make some. I just thought I'd give a "Heads Up!".

Sunlight

  • Guest
Without special interest
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2002, 07:39:00 PM »
Yes, probably TMA is not a interesting substance. Our dream was conceived in orther to document the Zn/HCl rdxn of nitropropenes.

Antoncho

  • Guest
I'd still wait for at least another report bee4 i
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2002, 06:34:00 AM »
I'd still wait for at least another report bee4 i got thoroughly convinced.... Psychedelics are very diverse in their effects on different humans, aren't they?

Antoncho

zed

  • Guest
You have a point.
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2002, 09:49:00 AM »
You do have a point A,

I don't know if detailed studies have been done on these matters.

PMA got a bad reputation from the get go, a person died under the influence in the 70s. We now know, that this happens sometimes with such amphetamines. But, I don't know if a toxological study would find it worse than MDA.

TMA has been reported to create violent tendencies, I assume there is a limited amount of data on this. If I were high on a cup of coffee, and I had to endure an interview by David Letterman........I would develop uncontrollable, violent tendencies myself.

Zed's buddies once had a sizable amount of DOB, might even have been legal at the time. One of the boys tried it, and reported it was nightmarish. The DOB was shit canned. It was the best decision that could be made, with the data available at the time. Turned out lots of people found DOB to be an acceptable high. Zed and the boys could have become high rollers. Oh, well.

So, you have a point. To a certain extent, we are working with limited data. We don't have a broad base of information to draw on. Maybe, at some future date we will discover our current perceptions are wrong.

foxy2

  • Guest
much worse
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2002, 10:01:00 PM »
PMA got a bad reputation from the get go, a person died under the influence in the 70s. We now know, that this happens sometimes with such amphetamines. But, I don't know if a toxological study would find it worse than MDA.

For PMA the ratio of pleasure dose/death dose is much worse than MDA.  And most people don't even think its all that pleasureable, so that makes it even worse.

Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

PolytheneSam

  • Guest
TMA
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2002, 03:01:00 AM »
There's a difference between 2,4,5-TMA and 3,4,5-TMA.

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html
The hardest thing to explain is the obvious

Antibody2

  • Guest
done lots of 2,4,5-TMA never got violent, worst ...
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2002, 05:31:00 AM »
done lots of 2,4,5-TMA never got violent, worst thing i could say was a low-mid dose gave a case of mildy antisocial(not talkative)cluelessness. best case - some of the best hallucinations i've experienced accompanied by an extreme sense of energetic well being the following day.

not a consistent trip though

hest

  • Guest
2,4,5-TMA
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2002, 09:57:00 AM »
Try to mix it with some of the other halucinogenic's, like LSD, psilocybin etc. 20-40mg gives it a whole new effect.
Taken alone you have to go to te 80-100mg before the fun part apper.

moo

  • Guest
Ok, let's quote Alexander Shulgin et al.
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2002, 09:14:00 PM »
Ok, let's quote Alexander Shulgin et al., The Psychotomimetic Properties of 3,4,5-Trimethoxyamphetamine, Nature vol 189 (1961), page 1011-2:

"Dosages of 2.8-3.5 mgm./kgm. were given to five adult male subjects, all of whom had had previous experience with either mescaline or lysergic acid diethylamide. [...] None of the subjects displayed the enhanced capacity for empathy characteristic of mescaline. The emotional responses elicited during the period of maximum dl-3,4,5-trimethoxyamphetamine intoxication (3-5 hr. from the start of the experiment) were striking in their intensity. Anger, hostility, and megalomaniac euphoria dominated the subject's thoughts and conversations. Actual acts of hostility were not observed, but it was felt that, in at least two subjects, provocation would have precipitated homicidal violence."

Information from the good old days ;) .

Antoncho

  • Guest
..........
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2002, 06:05:00 AM »
You know, what?

This state of mind sounds .... intriguing :)

.......'megalomaniac euphoria', heh?  :P

Antoncho


Antibody2

  • Guest
be purfect for pinky and the brain
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2002, 05:59:00 PM »
be purfect for pinky and the brain

Sunlight

  • Guest
Insight
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2002, 10:04:00 PM »
But in other parts of PIHKAL, I'm sure but I don't say now where, it's told about the inside of TMA, something like "not the same insight of TMA" or "same insight of TMA", and I suppose they are refering to TMA, not TMA2 or TMA6...

pandemonium

  • Guest
In the early 70's
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2002, 10:23:00 PM »
In the 70s I acquired, on the Hill, some 50+ hits of what was represented to be TMA.

Because that party was the only individual I have ever personally seen who actually knew what to do with Hawaiian Wood Rose, I believe it may have been the truth...(yes, I know they are apples and oranges, still, this guy KNEW!)

The high was simply ethereal, way past the earthy discomforts of mescaline and in no way like the scifi unreality of acid. No body load AT ALL! Our only violent tendencies under its influence were violent laughter, I had some memorable times with a GF and that stuff...It was MDA3 I know that...More than anything I ever saw, I would describe that stuff as a "Hilariant"...

Oh, damn, so long ago, I had almost forgotten, LOL - I later learned that a good bit of it went around called "Strawberry Mescaline", It WAS NOT mescaline, but most "Priests of the Temple" of the time did not choose to burden their customers with initial abbreviations for complex things.

Fight Terror! - support your local Alchemists, Brewers, and Cultivators Guild!

Vibrating_Lights

  • Guest
Acidic ZnAl/hg
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2002, 08:13:00 PM »
Just an idea
Might someone try a Zn Al/Hg in  GAA/EtOH  to reduce the nitropropene. First make up the GAA/EtOh add nitropropene and stirr until it is all dissolved then add the preamalgamated Zn/Al as it is consumed.  After basification remove the solvent under vac and extract the residue with toulene then vac filter the residue to collect remaining toulene.
VL_

moo

  • Guest
Ketone, oxime or something completely different?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2002, 12:58:00 AM »
In the tests of Zn/HCl reduction of phenylnitropropenes it could have been fruitful to try to find out if the major product was the ketone or maybe even the oxime (which of course is doubtable). This would give a hint about what is going wrong in the reaction. Or waste of nitroethane.

Sunlight

  • Guest
Zn and acetic acid
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2002, 02:19:00 AM »
I thoght about to try it with Zn and acetic in aqueous alcohol, and I'll do when I have a bit of time. I doubt it works.