Author Topic: Alchemical Marriage, Indole with Choline  (Read 5189 times)

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Alchemical Marriage, Indole with Choline
« on: August 13, 2000, 07:11:00 AM »
Merge in the crucible, indole with choline.
Consummate by rectifying the quaternion, with ethanolamine.

This has such a mystical inevitability to it, it would be a travesty if it fails to work.
After, it was inspired by meditations on a thread started by jesus, "DMAE of any use for DMT synth ??"
Mastermind really supplied the refs for verification of that, but at low yields.

Rhodium verified that ethanolamine would properly de-quaternize "trimethyltryptonium" halide quaternaries, and after a pointer by Lillienthal I extended this expectation to "trimethyltryptonium" hydroxide.

To be taken with 1 gr (avoir) Chloride of Natrium, infused in 4 apocathary minims Hydrogen Hydroxide (aq.) USP, or if USP grade is unavailable, may be substituted with 4 mimums d-H2O.

I haven't had time to calculate the effect of reducing the electron density of the carbon on the hydroxyl moeity of the molecule, by the increased basicity of the quaternion pulling the electron cloud quilt its own way. But I just quess I would expect better results in the merger with indole, over the closely related ethanolamine, by the quaternization giving greater basicity to the molecule. Perhaps the inorganic base reaction promoter  will not be necessary. On the other hand, choline's great basicity also should give a higher conductivity in an electrolytic reaction.

Considering volumetric considerations in the dry way, the operation is a condensation of two organic molecules into one bigger one, so pressure may help push it forward if it needs a boost. What the world needs now is a good Teflon microwave pressure bomb. Ah, but not spotting one at my local grocer, maybe the calorimetery bomb made of PVC pipe from the plumbing store would work.

I think excess choline would help pull water out from the condensation. All right. If we get a condensation we're halfway there. Even if we have to stick a condensing agent in. I wonder if ethanolamine would make a good condensing agent. I wonder about the thermodynamics of the reaction. I wonder how good a pressure transducer ice, in a PTFE tube, can be when it's inside a microwave. Shame you would block your microwaves from getting to the reagents if it encircled them in a tube, so make your ice two piston plugs in the tube, as the end caps of your reaction vessel.

The double piston ice pressure tube has plugs of ice pressurizing a cylindrical reaction volume from each end. If the outer ends of the ice plugs are tapered to cones, they should absorb the microwave energy faster, building pressure against the physical ends of the tube and causing each ice plug to physically slide farther into the tube towards its center, pressurizing the reaction between them. The melting rate within the pressure vessel so formed, of the ice piston ends capping it off (top and bottom), is largely determined by the heat given off in the reaction, in the case of an exothermal reaction.

A tube of PVC pipe with cemented end caps may be used, one cap and a short length of the pipe being sacrificed for each run, by being sawn off, when allowed to get cold. A new cap is cemented on the shorter pipe for the next run.

The assembly includes the molds for the ice points. The ice is molded in a PTFE (or acrylate resin) plug, shaped cylindrically, with a hollowed conical inlet on the ice-molding end, and a solid piston surface facing the end cap. When water is frozen in this plug unit, it freezes into a sharp point facing the end cap of the pipe. Thus when it is irradiated, the melting activity will first occur at the sharp end and create hydrostatic pressure as the temperature increases and its vapor pressure rises. The ice will physically move inward from each end, increasing the hydrostatic pressure on the hydrogen-charged reaction chamber between them.

The reaction vessel contains indole, choline in stoiciometric excess, and ethanolamine. There are two phases to the reaction, one in which indole and choline condense, giving off dimethyltryptonium hydroxide and water, and the second phase the demethylammonation, which I expect must produce methanol. The pressure must grow to really respectable levels inside the pipe.

Ethanolamine and choline are biochemically linked, by being the defining portions of the two most common phosphoglycerides, (present in every living organism which is big enough to see), namely cephalin and lecithin, respectively. There is no way to intercept anyone's supply of these two drug precursors, if such they prove to be. Indole is obtainable by steam distillation of an abundance of natural products; for example, the average human excretes seven grams per day of the substance indole. Skatole, the 2,3-dioxo ring, occurs with it like stink on shit, but withstands harsh reduction conditions to produce more indole. For the more squeamish, egg whites are made largely of the protein albumin. Melted down in a strong base, the tryptophan amino acid present in albumin (or albumen) is destroyed, allowing the indole present to bee distilled with steam, which can bee traced by its ultraviolet luminiscence. Thus indole is also available, unstoppable and untraceable, in unlimited quantities for low cost.

It's so poetic, that I hope this works. The next fallback, if choline won't condense with indole, is to use a dehydrating reaction moderator, but I'm hoping the excess of choline will serve that purpose.


Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.


  • Guest
Re: Alchemical Marriage, Indole with Choline
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2000, 07:24:00 AM »
Choline is a quaternary ammonium salt.  DMAE is the thing to use.  Interesting philosophy, halfapint.  I think some more interest in this area would help out.


  • Guest
Re: Alchemical Marriage, Indole with Choline
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2000, 09:03:00 AM »
Choline may be acted upon by ethanolamine to produce DMAE (n,n-dimethyl-amino ethanol), so in a way it all boils down, so to speak, to the same thing.

The real question is whether the two-carbon alcohol group (on either choline or DMAE) should be first "oxidatively" dehydrated in a separate pot, in a separate reaction, to present a double bond for the coupling instead of the hydroxyl group. If the condensation does not produce that extra molecule of water, pressure is more effective in accelerating the reaction.


Half a pint's a half a pound, a half the world around, around.

added 8-14-2000: Modification retracted.