Author Topic: How can The Vespiary help reduce harm given the enviorment of drug use?  (Read 4399 times)

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Offline Vesp

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What can The Vespiary do to help reduce harm given the current social, political and economic environments caused by the War on drugs, the sometimes addictive and  dangerous properties of some drugs or how people decide to use them?

I think some are clear such as:

1. We should promote the legalization of Marijuana  and other psychedelics. The dangers involved with using them are far smaller than the legal dangers of getting caught with them so by supporting their legalization is supporting their harm reduction. This may be true with all other drugs, but strong arguments could be made against opioids.

2.  Create, spread, and support those who are producing information about drugs - The more available knowledge is to everyone, the easier it will be for them to make informed decisions or actions that will help prevent addiction, impurities, or dangerous actions taken while in the laboratory, dealing, etc.

3. Make it well known how to seek help for overdoses, poisonings, legal advice and others such as suicide hotline.

These are just what I was able to come up with, I am sure you guys who collectively have far more experience and perspective on these subjects will have additional and helpful comments, so please speak up! :)
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Offline MentalEntropy

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What makes this such a tall order is, the areas where trustworthy information and real harm reduction are needed the most, seem resistant to these changes. I mean how exactly do you give someone better information when they dont want it? Not to mention that some governments are more than happy to make these efforts criminal.

I keep writing and rewriting this post, different every time, but I just dont know what to say. How do you overcome people's cognitive dissonance? That to me is the main problem--the very people you want to reach wont hear you because they are comfortable with the information they already have even though its completely false. This is a feature built in to the human brain and we all do it to some degree or have to some degree. Google cognitive dissonance or just dissonance and that should put you in touch with plenty of info about that sad habit of humanity. If Aesop is to be believed, even animals do this shit when they cant get food that's too high off the ground for them to reach.

I was considering making an infographic/writeup bout how to purify heroin, complete with pictures. Since in my mind this could lower the risk of overdose by helping to normalize dose. It could also increase harm as purer, cleaner, drugs are often irresistible to those bent on abusing them. Tha'ts been my reaction to most exceptionally pure compounds Ive found myself with, ymmv. But, whatever the conflicts and problems with teaching people the simple basics of A/B extraction and purification of most compounds are, the inconsistency of dose size is and has been probably the biggest danger for heroin users.

I recently made small, not very indepth, infographic for washing OP's (the newer oxycontin pills) and afterwards I had mix feelings about whether I helped anything or if I had just enabled god only knows how many people to abuse medication in an even more dangerous way than they would have. At the end of the day I land firmly on the side that information should be freely available. To be honest, what really bothers me most about the OP graphic is that if it were to become popular, I would not be surprised to see the pharma industry respond by adding poisons to the pills to prevent extraction of actives. They already use this tactic, ie naloxone is added to buprenorphine to discourage from injection. I dont see it as much of a stretch to see them doing it in new ways on new products. There's a whole other side to pill washing in particular that make it a prickly subject. For instance, I never once considered posting that graphic here. I don't think it would be welcome here and I understand why. Besides the fact that anybody with even a slight chemistry bent would have tried what my technique uses on their own anyway and realized its nearly perfect extraction of these pills easily, cheaply and reliably. Thats the kind of thing that can take a great board like this and turn it to shit in a few months time.

I have no idea what this post is supposed to convey. This is a subject I think about and agonize about quite frequently and felt compelled to comment on.

I look forward to reading something that gets everybody's wheels turning, not just mine.

Offline Vesp

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Anyone else have ideas?

I wonder if there is any practical things we could do here?
Perhaps get in cahoots with an anonymous drug testing place to determine impurities in various street drugs users come across?
Maybe work with a lawyer? something?
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Offline packetforger

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Yes. Members who have the opportunity to do so should get involved in local harm reduction efforts (students for sensible drug policy, groups that offer drug testing at nightclubs/festivals, etc), and help spread information.

I have been in discussions with some friends about trying to set up a local distribution of Marquis test kits and suchlike for users, and distribution of harm reduction resources (mainly focused on MDMA - the most popular drug here at the moment).

Sending off samples to labs/running tests and publishing results to places such as Pill Reports (http://pillreports.com/) is another option I would tell people to seriously consider, as well as trying to get people to simply look up their pills before taking them, and if anything is "off", get them tested.

Offering harm reduction information to front line people (barmen, bouncers, etc) at festivals and nightclubs is another option. In the last few years a late bar I frequent has changed its unofficial policy on drug use from entirely "turning a blind eye", to having its bouncers "keep tabs" on people/what they are taking, and only intervening if someone is putting themselves or others at risk.

The recent FDA approval of the autoinjectors (naloxone?) for opiate overdose treatment is a great step forward as well, carrying one is an excellent idea if you, or any of your friends, are in the habit of taking opiates, or if you are likely to be in a situation where opiates are being consumed.

There is no "one thing" we can do to help reduce harm, but by practicing safe-use, and encouraging it amongst our peers, and distributing information, we can make a bit of a difference. Maybe even save some lives.

Offline MentalEntropy

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Sadly, I dont believe there is much that can be done that would result in a net positive as long as there is such a thing as the war on drugs. As I said before, I spend a shitload of time thinking about this shit because it just boggles my mind that we have not stood together as a huge scary mob and demanded an end to the war on drugs. Nearly 50 years of data is, apparently, completely ignored. The government's obsession with making meth more and more illegal over the past several years have led to rates of abuse that make absolutely no sense to anyone who has ever used meth. The shit just aint that good. It seems obvious to me that by making meth more and more forbidden they just make it irresistible to people who would have normally had no fucks to give. Then once they do develop a habit the rest of the system steps in to make sure that their entire life is ruined.

Imagine you are a single mom who works two jobs and some person, coworker etc, finally convinces you to do a little crystal to help you through a rough patch. The shit keeps you up to the point that you cant get enough sleep that night and now youre set up to use again in the morning because youre too tired to function. This goes on for a couple weeks and its getting old fast. If you could just go to your doctor or someone in your family and explain what youve got yourself in to, you could get help, which you probably actually want, then chances are good imo that it would be over that easy. Instead, what we have is a society and a system set up that will take your kids and throw you in jail.

The greatest causer of harm is absolutely the war on drugs. Maybe our best bet is to try get people to see how prohibition plays a huge part in drug addiction and how the war on drugs exacerbates not only rates of addiction but how severe the addictions are in general.

I know in my heart that there will come a time when we will look back on the war on drugs and how we view altered consciousness, and the depth of the ignorance and how anti-human it is will be as obvious to us as the Salem witch trials are to us now.

Offline d00d00d00

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First and foremost The Vespiary must be policed with virulent effort to stop the spread of disinformation.

Disinformation (especially in the world of drugs) can cause SERIOUS harm not only to oneself but to nearby others.  I am no expert in many aspects of what are discussed on the forum, however, in my short time in this community I have been led astray by MUCH bullshit (Not much at all on this forum but others, etc).   Some of this bullshit causes unnecessary paranoia, or is just downright incorrect and dangerous.  Even some of the formally educated overlords of the previous incarnations of this site love to tend to forget WHO is using the information, and HOW it is being used (ahem Rhodium at the Hive ahem).  This negligent behavior by those who have clear superiority complex's arising from their expertise in the topic of discussion is just as bad as the trailer park hick who has no idea what they are talking about.  Effort must be made by those with formal training in chemistry to understand that like it or not this is a clandestine community.  Ones who are not as versed in the methods of organic chemistry may cause themselves serious damage that could have been easily avoided by a simple (*CAUTiON*) and if need be a footnote with an explanation. 
I am not a chemist, just a persistent idiot.

Offline SubliminallyOveranalyzed

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Sub suggests Awareness. Simple, Basic, but persistent Awareness of reality, which is essentially accountability and mindfulness.

Unavoidable disclaimers upon entry of site are informing, awareness inspiring, and thus, exonerating to a degree, as self preservation must be a priority in all such endeavors, but unfortunately you can't fix stupid, and stupid people will inevitably make up some percentage of this and any other collective of individuals(in all times past, and yet to come)....
 

« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 09:54:12 AM by SubliminallyOveranalyzed »
You draw to yourself in this existence and in all others those qualities upon which you concentrate your attention. If you vividly concern yourself with the injustices you feel have been done you, then you attract more such experience, and if this goes on, then it will be mirrored in your next existence. It is true that in between lives there is "time" for understanding and contemplation.

Those who do not take advantage of such opportunities in this life often do not do so when it is over. Consciousness will expand. It will create. It will turn itself inside out to do so. But there is nothing outside of yourself that will force you to understand your issues or face them, now or after physical death.

The opportunity for development and knowledge is as present at this moment, in this life, as it will ever be. If you ignore day-by-day opportunities for development now, no one can force you to accept and utilize greater abilities after death, or between lives. The teachers are there in after-death experience, but there are also teachers here in your existence now.

If man paid more attention to his own subjective behavior, to those feelings of identification with nature that persistently arise, then half of the dictates of both the evolutionists and the creationists would automatically fall away, for they would appear nonsensical. It is not a matter of outlining a whole new series of methods that will allow you to increase your psychic abilities, or to remember your dreams, or to perform out-of-body gymnastics. It is rather a question or a matter of completely altering your approach to life, so that you no longer block out such natural spontaneous activity.

~Seth in TES9 (The Early Sessions Book9) by Jane Roberts - Session 510 - January 19 1970 (Seth is an energy personality essence no longer focused in physical reality for existence, as trance-channeled by author & medium Jane Roberts & her husband Robert Butts from Dec 1964 - Sep 1984 [Jane's Death])

Offline P!ssedSc!ent!st

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To be honest, I'd hope that each and every one of us strives to correct, debunk and re-educate our fellow psychonauts, friends, new-bees, family and all altered-consciousness enthusiasts in order to CEASE the perpetuation of what I call "stoner myths"

you know:

"coughing gets you higher"
"you can make meth out of just some drano and sudafed"
"i have X based, coke based and acid based tabs"
"microwave your coke and the cut sticks to the plate"
"jus dump n sum bakin soda n boil off da water homie"
"just steal a dead guys puhneel gland and just smoke the juice maaan" [mispronunciation to illustrate ignorance, yes, ive ACTUALLY heard this proposed as a route to 'cheap easy dmt' O.O]

feel free to remind me of more of these, because you hear shit like this ALL the time from burnouts, trailer park species and ex-cons - but sadly this has permeated even the upper-middle class and even further. like, people ACTUALLY think when your coke smells like GASOLINE, its REAL "fire" around these parts. -_-' they arent even AWARE that dealers will cut with things like lidocaine or other anesthetics specifically to mimick "good" shit.
I think if common knowledge to folks like us, who REALLY know what the other side of the coin looks like is such a DUHH type thing, we really are obligated as good people to let the lesser-informed know and help them to understand what the 'drug world' is all about - in all its gruesome detail. just so they dont accidentally kill themselves simply from ignorance, which then puts drug chemists and distributors of ALL substances in THE worst light possible. hell yes there are some shady bastards out there, always will be, but there will always be the educated, ahem "Elite" [if i may] who CARE to understand these things deeply.

so it makes sense that we should impart this knowledge and prevent the potential end users of GOOD, helpful chemicals from fucking themselves - and in turn genuine folks like us, in the ass - metaphorically, of course. we should take a Shamanistic responsibility headed attitude toward this type of thing. shows what we are all about; understanding, peace, love, respect for fellow man, unity, etc. not ALL of us are ratchet ass, hustlin ass punks bumming rides to sell 'soff and h0rd' to 'make a rack' with total disregard for anyone but themselves and money.

forgive me if any of you speak in this ghetto dialect naturally, but, if you do, i hate your voice. know that. deeply.

back on track though!
I propose some kind of direct assistance with this issue involving a LEGITIMATE AND LEGAL product of some kind to aid the User in his/her own harm reduction.
i DO have a specific idea in mind, but id rather talk about it with anyone interested through pm. so please, please if any of this hits home for you.

been thinking on this for a while, it really is a brainless solution and there is someone already doing something akin to this - however the organizer of this outfit is not a chemist, nor does it seem that he knows the 'drug world' as intimately as some of us. meaning something crafted by do-gooding folks who KNOW their shit inside and out could really make something happen.

if this was just too damn pandering of a post or too wordy, just remove it or do whatever. i apologize in advance if any of this violates some rule i missed, but i think im in the clear here.

 :)