Author Topic: A variation on the a/b process for dmt extraction  (Read 623 times)

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urushibara

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A variation on the a/b process for dmt extraction
« on: July 08, 2003, 06:21:00 AM »
this is a report of an altered process of acid/base extraction which is intended to remove tannins from the product, and incidental to this it is also reducing the volumes of materials needed to be worked with after the first extraction:

To 80g fresh hand-shredded acacia obtusifolia bark, 750ml of water at pH 13.5 was added. The liquid almost immediately turned black. 100ml of shellite was added. The container was sealed and gently swirled, and left to sit for two hours before starting extraction. The naptha was extracted, then two more times, naptha was added, swirled gently for 5 minutes and let to settle for 10 minutes, the naptha extractions combined and evaporated.

When the material was inspected the next day, it had started crystallising in patches, there was a fair amount on the dish, some white and crystalline, some still wet and liquidy looking, and some patches of orangish looking. The material that remained after the evaporation looks as though it could probably be smoked, though it would be fairly rough.

In future, the freebase will be titrated out with dilute HCl (about 10 drops in 100ml or so), as scraping up the stuff and getting it into the acid was difficult when the residue was dry (ish) as it was. Seeing the dry and partially crystallising material is good for the morale though, it gives one a lot of confidence in the process.

The residue was washed with the described acidic solution, the residue was scraped and jiggled and swirled to ensure all the freebase came across.

It was then defatted 1x with 100ml of naptha. There was very little other than alkaloids in the residue anyway, so 1 pass of 100ml should have been enough.

Then the water was separated and basified, and extracted 3x with 100ml of naptha and left to evaporate


The results of this experiment have not been reported to me as yet, but that will be posted here soon.


ClearLight

  • Guest
removing incorrect comment....
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2003, 09:56:00 AM »
( deleted by CL )


urushibara

  • Guest
dmt salts (anyway)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2003, 10:02:00 AM »
regarding the deleted comment: well, I have seen dmt tartrate, it was slightly acidic, but it formed a red coloured resinous mass. When it was dry it was possible to grind it into powder. Also, the tartrate forms a solid which would certainly be caught in a filter, albeit vacuum would probably squish it through the filter

anyway, the experiments are proceeding, more details after more rigourous technique is applied will be reported. That report did not yield very well, but there was a lot of flaws in the technique used, not to mention the person shook a rug out near the evaporating naptha at the end.


urushibara

  • Guest
hmmm. do we really need to go the full a/b???
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2003, 12:57:00 PM »
well, someone sent me this info about some interesting experiments:

Acacia Extraction Log
Experiment #1
To 80g fresh hand-shredded acacia obtusifolia bark, 750ml of water at pH 13.5 was added. The liquid almost immediately turned black. 100ml of shellite was added. The container was sealed and gently swirled, and left to sit for two hours before starting extraction. The naptha was extracted, then two more times, naptha was added, swirled gently for 5 minutes and let to settle for 10 minutes, the naptha extractions combined and evaporated.

When the material was inspected the next day, it had started crystallising in patches, there was a fair amount on the dish, some white and crystalline, some still wet and liquidy looking, and some patches of orangish looking. The material that remained after the evaporation looks as though it could probably be smoked, though it would be fairly rough.

In future, the freebase will be titrated out with dilute HCl (about 10 drops in 100ml or so), as scraping up the stuff and getting it into the acid was difficult when the residue was dry (ish) as it was. Seeing the dry and partially crystallising material is good for the morale though, it gives one a lot of confidence in the process.

The residue was washed with the described acidic solution, the residue was scraped and jiggled and swirled to ensure all the freebase came across.

It was then defatted 1x with 100ml of naptha. There was very little other than alkaloids in the residue anyway, so 1 pass of 100ml should have been enough.

Then the water was separated and basified, and extracted 3x with 100ml of naptha and left to evaporate

Experiment #2
To 135g of finely shredded acacia obtusifolia bark 1.25L of alkaline water was added, the whole mixture, after shaking to distribute fully through the bark measured pH 12.6. 100ml of naptha was added to the container, it was gently turned end over end for 5 minutes and left to sit for two hours.

The naptha was extracted and filtered, a further 100ml was added, the container sealed and turned end over end for 5 minutes, then extracted, and repeated 1 more time with another 100ml of naptha. The naptha wash washed 3x with plain water (which measured around pH 8.5 and probably contained calcium salts), agitation achieve via stirring, and then the naptha was evaporated in a drying dish

Upon drying, the materal smelled a bit like a cross between dmt, menthol, turpentine and black pepper, and crystallised a fair bit. It was scraped up and it quickly hardened into a congealed mass, when more liquid it appeared to be a murky yellow, and sticky, and when it dried it became a grainy waxy texture with a pale yellow green tint. It weighed 100mg. This works out to a yield of 0.0007 or 0.07% so, if it represents a good yield, then the dry weight would have been 45g, which means it is 2/3 weight water. I am not sure of what the ratio is supposed to be at this point, this is something that would be useful to have a vague idea about. Certainly animal bodies are 75% water. Also, this is the part of the plant with the highest density of fluid movement, it is full of water. So, bearing in mind that this is a crude extract (which has been washed with water) it should be somewhere around 60-80% according to the amount that it takes to create its effects (around 50-80mg). The author has seen extract of little more than this quality before from the conventional acid/base extraction with no defatting. This seems to greatly eliminate mechanical losses and reduce time.

Here is a picture of the material:


After having seen an a/b yield exactly the same thing (the a/b was sans defatting) methinks, 'hmmmm so why not just eliminate the acid boil altogether?'

nah. swim knows it can be made nicer simply by defatting... but at this point, the main question is, if this can be gotten out of the plant with just a base soak and water wash...

swim assures me that it can be smoked as it appears in the picture btw.

okay, so there's two pieces of resultant info from this - one the alkaloids can be extracted in one step. two - acetone doesn't recrystallise it, and three - naptha works to recrystallise - the dmt forms nice rocks, but seemingly more soluble is the yellow gunk. SWIM thinks he's gonna have to bite the bullet and get some IPA.

it might have to be an a/b after this, but if there was a cleaning option or a better recrystallisation solvent, that would be much neater.