Author Topic: Preparing catalyst metal from catalyct converters  (Read 653 times)

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Glacial_Refluxer

  • Guest
Preparing catalyst metal from catalyct converters
« on: April 03, 2003, 06:17:00 PM »
If someone were to fill a nylon/stalking with the metal
coated ceramic balls from a atomotive catalyct converter
then stick a wire in the top of balls, submerge balls in
salt water and hook posative to the sack-o-balls and
negative to a lead sinker contained in a lambskin cell
divider set in the salt water then filter water to get the
black sludge that forms from the balls, could this now dry
black powder be used directly in a hydrogenation? If not,
what could be done with this black catalyst powder to get
it ready for a hydrogenation?

SWIM aquired around 6 grams of this hopefully usefull black
powder so far.

SWIM remembers doing this type of thing with coins in 6th
grade science class.


Rhodium

  • Guest
Whatever your black powder is, it contains a...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2003, 04:06:00 PM »
Whatever your black powder is, it contains a mixture of a lot of noble metals and/or their salts. You need to purify them a lot before continuing. UTFSE for details.

Glacial_Refluxer

  • Guest
What noble metals?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2003, 06:41:00 PM »
It is to my understanding that these ceramic balls are
coated with a vary thin and pure mixture of platinum,
palladium, and rhodium. Maybe swim created the salts of
these metals?


MnkyBoy78

  • Guest
Forgot...
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2003, 11:32:00 PM »
Your right, those metals may be there...So is hydrocarbons and other various exhaust products that were in the CC.  Unless its brand new.


Glacial_Refluxer

  • Guest
The balls were cleaned before hand mnky
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2003, 01:42:00 AM »
I would still like to know what noble metals would be mixed
with the catalyst metals, and your source for the info.
Untill then I believe its pure catalyst black sitting here.
Is there a test swim could do? I passed a strong magnet
over the powder and nothing came up.


Organikum

  • Guest
not coated
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2003, 02:12:00 AM »
the ceramic in a automotive catalytic converter is not coated but also if not visible on first sight the ceramic is porous for to provide a large surface. On this surface particles of metal (most palladium, platinum and rhodium sometimes rhuthenium at least Pd or Pt) are deposited. Clusters of a few atoms of metal to small to be seen without an (electron)microscope. The way the noble metal was deposited on and in the pores of the ceramic and the additionally used promotors, most other metaloxides or compounds, is essential for the working of the catalyst, what he catalyses, at what temperature and the fot the specified activity.
So you have an old automobile catalytic converter which was designed mainly for gasphase oxidations at temperatures of 350°C and up. It is now worn out mostly inactive and poisoned. Also if new it wouldn´t have catalyzed a hydrogenation in liquid phase below 100°C. Because it is not made to do this. Nowadays these converters are highly spezialized devices made to fulfill one task with the minimum of noble metals needed. What you want is driving a submarine on the highway.
If you can get hand on a old unused converter from the time they got usual somewhere in the 80´ies I guess, this might be worth a try as these days the problem was solved by using a lot of palladium what was quite cheap. A small chance I say but a chance. A newer model for hydrogenation: plain forget it.
Nowadays a new converter might be useful for oxidations in the gas phase at elevated temperatures, those which are made of three blocks at least. They could be very useful for this I believe. But this says furnace tube and is regarded as one of the deadly sins at the HIVE (together with microwaves, pressure and else).
I will go now and whip myself for having named it.  :P
ORG


Glacial_Refluxer

  • Guest
WTF?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2003, 05:04:00 AM »
You lost me back there. Ive opened around 30 converters,
the ceramic balls or honey comb is coated with a slight
gold looking metal. The bottom line is that catalyct
converters contain catalyst metals, catalyst metals are
great for hydrogenations. In about a week swim will try a
hydrogenation with ephedrine freebase although he has never
messed with hydrogenations before.


Rhodium

  • Guest
You will fail, unless you separate or at least
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2003, 12:17:00 AM »
You will fail, unless you separate or at least purify the metals. Especially as you are an inexperienced hydrogenator...

MnkyBoy78

  • Guest
What you seek
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2003, 06:26:00 AM »

http://www.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter1.htm



Even better still, (SWIM saved you the effort of scrolling down and clicking, Thanx SWIM)

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter2.htm




MnkyBoy78

  • Guest
Some more info on H+.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2003, 07:31:00 PM »
Some more info on H+.  Click on the Hydrogen link at the top.

http://www.iahe.org/




white_rabbit

  • Guest
i was thinking the same thing
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2003, 02:11:00 AM »
after a short look it would seem that platinum paladium might be usefull ... keep this running and post results

 wish SWIM good luck

jimwig

  • Guest
bad memory
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2003, 01:29:00 AM »
but i remember that "poisoned" catalytic substrates could be "oxidized" or cleaned by heating them. something like a 1000C.  the oxidations from the hydrocarabons in the exhaust system on the PGM's would be burned off.

Organikum

  • Guest
converter rework
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2003, 02:59:00 AM »
there is a patent - sorry don´t have the number, a german AFAIK - which describes the reuse of catalytic converters. Basically the flowdirection is changed by chopping the honeycomb in segments and turning them them around. Also those in the middle get at front and end. Was tested by independent specialists and shall provide at least 90% conversion of a new one.

So taking the middle part of the honeycomb, discarding front and rear part and changing the flows direction might lead to a usable catalyst for oxidations in the vapour/gasphase at elevated temperatures. At lower temperatures such a converter is not worth shit. Same for reductions. Forget it.

But using the honeycomb with remaining catalyst as substrate for precepating nickel for example might be feasible. The noble metals present should boost the power of the nickel and the nickel will prevent further poisoning of the noble metals.
Worth a try.