Author Topic: Ammonia Sulphate!!?  (Read 1256 times)

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kdog_x

  • Guest
Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« on: January 16, 2002, 04:23:00 AM »
I'm having trouble finding any Ammonia Sulphate fertilizer. I tried all the local stores but haven't seen anything. I realize that its the winter, but some place should still carry the sh&!. Can anyone give me a push in the right direction?

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2002, 04:31:00 AM »
In Southern California any of the larger hardware/home supply stores carry it in the garden section. A 20 lb bag is a couple of dollars.

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2002, 04:31:00 AM »
Gardening area of hardware stores. Nurseries. Wal-fart even.

I'm telling everyone for the last time: In the good ol' US of A (forgive me, but I am assuming you are a US native. If I am incorrect, feel free to flame) In the USA, mono-ingredient fertilizers are no longer sold in brand name stores like walfart et al. They are always mixes of all kinds of stuff.

Finding ammonium sulfate is easy. Just look for pure ammonium nitrate, and the sulfate appears everywhere. Worked for me when I wanted nitrate for you know what once upon a time and it was nowhere to be found, only sulfate sulfate sulfate.  :P

Nowadays, phosphates are pretty popular, too.

Why do you need the sulfate?

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2002, 04:37:00 AM »
Why do you need the sulfate?
It is a cheap source of ammonia for use in the production of anhydrous ammonia or methylamine.

In the USA, mono-ingredient fertilizers are no longer sold in brand name stores like walfart et al.
I wouldn't know about Walmart, I avoid shopping there. The garden stores that I do go to carry bags of pure ammonium sulfate.

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2002, 04:46:00 AM »
I've tried Walfart, Mynards, H***Dep** and every other store I can possibly concieve of. Unforunately many of the larger nursery's etc. are closed until the spring. Unfortunately SWIM Doesn't want to wait that long. Guess I'll let my fingers do the walking and use the yellow pages.

One more question though, For making chloroform from pool shock + acetone. Anyone know what type of shock to use. I know that I should use Liquid, but will any liquid shock work?

-PS agent_smith... youre a god


Vibrating_Lights

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2002, 04:46:00 AM »
This time of year they will look at you funny for Am Nitrate purchases. find an agricultural/farm Feed store drive up in a truck and boots with mud on your pants.
pretty much any am fertalizer will work with NAOH to produce the gas you desire.
 VL_

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2002, 04:49:00 AM »
I've found Ferts with Am Nitrate in it, but its mixed with a bunch of other crap and in low conc. I want to make this as quick and easy as possible.

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2002, 05:02:00 AM »
H***Dep**
Yep, I have seen bags of pure ammonium sulfate in these stores in SoCal as recently as last summer. Around here I would expect it to be available year round but sounds like you live in some part of the country that has nasty things like snow.

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2002, 05:12:00 AM »
How much worse is this going to be if I use Am Nitrate and maybe... a bigger container? Anyone try it?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2002, 05:18:00 AM »
It will be fine. NH4NO3 + NaOH --> NH3 + H2O + NaNO3

All of these are stable. A waste of good NH4NO3, though....

Terbium, I wont shop at walfart though either, but I know they carry such things. They seem to be the heavyweight favorite as well.

And what was said above is true, any ammonium salt will work upon basification to yield ammonia gas.

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

Elementary

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2002, 05:22:00 AM »
"Worked for me when I wanted nitrate for you know what once upon a time"

Never knew you were into nitrous oxide ! ;)

One day I'll understand everything !

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2002, 05:25:00 AM »
I hope to god you are kidding lol.  ;)

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2002, 06:42:00 AM »
Thermal decomposition of ammonium nitrate is the commercial procedure for production of nitrous oxide.

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2002, 01:54:00 PM »
Im aware of that, I meant that I hoped he was kidding about me using it.

In fact terbium, I had a small debate with Osmium about thermal decomposition of NH4NO3 to N2O in a thread awhile back.

                                                    PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

halfapint

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2002, 11:46:00 AM »
Since we are talking about ammonium nitrate rather than the title compound, it does more than just give off N2O. It's a good oxidizer too, like in US 3965185 in which it is used to reoxidize nickel chloride (you know, palladium chloride, ferric chloride, osmium bromide works fine too) in a Wacker process of oxidizing an olefin to a ketone. Much easier to handle than benzoquinone, right? Also cheaper? The ammonium nitrate gives off nitrogen and goes away during the course of the reaction. Gives the same effect as if it had turned into nascent oxygen in the pot.

turning science fact into <<science fiction>>

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2002, 11:33:00 PM »
I found some 4lb boxes derived from Ammon. Sulfate and Amm. Nitrate. $3 each. It says they're 12 percent available nitrate. Will I need to buy 2 tons. Or will this bee enough?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

Osmium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2002, 12:39:00 AM »
> It says they're 12 percent available nitrate. Will I need
> to buy 2 tons. Or will this bee enough?

For what? It helps a lot if people would say what their intended target is.

You have 4 pounds of a mixture containing 12% ammonium nitrate and presumably 88% ammonium sulfate. So there.

goiterjoe

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2002, 06:52:00 AM »
2 tons in the back of a moving truck should be sufficient for bringing down a large federal building.  Hope you don't plan on using the same credit card/checking account to buy the racing fuel though. ;)

If Pacman had influenced us, we'd run around dark rooms eating pills and listen to repetitive music

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2002, 10:17:00 AM »
Let me rephrase that. I would like to know how this percentage compares to sulphate of ammonia fertilizer *SWIM has never seen that. Is that stuff 100%? Also, Am. Sulfate and Nitrate were just the first two items on the ingredient list. There were seveal others. I'm assuming they were listed from greatest to least.

PS I'll leave the federal buildings to the terrorists

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

halfapint

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2002, 03:08:00 PM »
It's 12% total "available nitrogen". This includes the ammonia from both the sulfate and nitrate, and the nitrogen which forms the nitrate (and also any other nitrates there may bee). About any ammonia-containing fertilizer will serve to generate ammonia, with alkali. Ammonium sulfate would produce more nitrogen for its bulk, more cleanly than a mixed fertilizer.

turning science fact into <<science fiction>>

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2002, 10:56:00 AM »
Uh... I think I missed something, how is this a waste of good NH4NO3. Will my Zinnias die?

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2002, 03:05:00 PM »
Haha, don't worry about that comment. It's just a "personal" opinion.  ;)

                                                      PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

Elementary

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2002, 03:29:00 PM »
Talk about waste(d)

In 1921 a 4,500 metric ton stockpile of ammonium nitrate and ammonium sulfate exploded at a chemical plant in Oppau, Germany. The blast and subsequent fire killed 600, injured 1500, and left 7000 people homeless.


One day I'll understand everything !

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2002, 03:37:00 PM »
The nitrate was the one to blame, not the sulfate. If you use sulfate, you should have no worries whatsoever of explosion.

                                                       PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

Elementary

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2002, 03:42:00 PM »
I think it was the double salt (NH4)2SO4.2NH4NO3 (Leuna Saltpeter), anyway getting back to ammonium sulphate .............

One day I'll understand everything !

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2002, 07:00:00 PM »
In 1921 a 4,500 metric ton stockpile of ammonium nitrate and ammonium sulfate exploded at a chemical plant in Oppau, Germany.
The way I remember the story is that this was a huge pile sitting outside, byproduct from some other process.  Over time, exposure to the elements had caused the pile to fuse into a rock hard mass. So, when they decided to clean up the pile, to break up the fused mass they decided to blast. They drilled holes into the hardened mass, inserted dynamite and set off the dynamite hoping to break the pile into smaller pieces.

When was the Port Arthur, Texas explosion? This involved a freight ship filled with amonium nitrate that caught fire. Even though it was taken a good distance from port before the explosion it still caused great damage to the town.

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2002, 10:06:00 PM »
Just got back from H*** D****. I checked the fertilizer aisle for bags of pure ammonium sulfate. I found the tags showing where the ammonium sulfate had been but there were no bags. Just as I was looking around for an employee to ask when they would restock the ammonium sulfate, here came someone pulling a pallet of about 25 20lb bags and before I left the store I saw him bringing in another pallet of 20lb bags. So, H*** D**** in Southern Calif. has bags of pure ammonium sulfate again, at a price of less than $3.00/20lb bag.

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2002, 06:32:00 AM »
I had recently told a friend of SWIPP's about this topic of acquisition, and that SWIPP could not find it here in TX, and he said, more or less, "Well then you need to open your eyes, man!" We went to the store which you speak of, and lo and behold, small 5lb bags and large 25lb bags, for $1.29 and $4.19 respectively. Not bad for 25lbs....

                                                     PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2002, 03:50:00 AM »
Looks like I just live in the wrong state. I even got an employee to unlock the door to the outside garden section. If they have it, it mustn't be until spring. Or maybe my H*** De*** just sucks ::)

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

Elementary

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2002, 04:16:00 AM »
I just can't believe what your saying !

As a last resort make it by adding dilute sulphuric acid to ammonia solution (household ammonia, available at large chemists and hardware stores) and evapourate.

One day I'll understand everything !

toltec

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2002, 03:43:00 AM »
When youn guy's say pure amonia sulphate do you mean 100%
or do you mean 28%or what please clarifie 8)

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2002, 03:56:00 AM »
Ammonium sulfate is a solid, so pure would imply 100% ammonium sulfate.

For aqueous solutions of ammonia, "pure" often refers to containing no adulterants, and "concentration" refers to the quantity included within the water.

                                                   PrimoPyro

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

kdog_x

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2002, 03:39:00 AM »
Maybe March will bring new tidings. No hurry, Swim can't make chloroform without a still anyway.  ;)

People who throw dirt. Lose Ground

PrimoPyro

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2002, 04:01:00 AM »
What?

Vivent Longtemps la Ruche!

toltec

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2002, 06:31:00 AM »
amonia sulphate is a solid ,but so is all the other crap inthe fertilizer.listenif I have a 20lb sack and 8lb is
filler(bullshit) and the rest is amonia sulphate then you
don't have 100% amonia sulphate.Let's just get real here
and stop all the bullshit.Outside of annie(nh3)there hasn't been any 100% amonia anything in great amount anywhere at any store for sell to individuals.
Jeeze I feel like "FROST" is back.

What ever became of Frost anyway? 8)  8)

Buster_Hymen

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2002, 10:48:00 PM »
He passed away (was decapitated, actually) in a tragic explosion involving a bug sprayer, aqueous ammonia, lithium batteries, and several opened cans of starting fluid.


  \\|//
    ô¿ô     -- Free Spitball and give him a wedgie!
    \O/
      '''

toltec

  • Guest
Re: Ammonia Sulphate!!?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2002, 05:05:00 AM »
Don't forget all the honey he made from edta or that
photodeveloping fluid.Ha,Ha,Ha ;D  ;D  :P  8)

Peaktime

  • Guest
Ammonia gas generation
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2003, 08:07:00 PM »
A few doubts.....
Will ANY ammonium salt react with NaOH to produce Ammonia gas???????
And if yes, is there an difference of using one salt instead of other, in therms of gas generation?
I bought some Ammonium Bicarbonate (NH4HCO3), can I use it to produce ammonia gas?

Rhodium

  • Guest
ammonium salts
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2003, 08:28:00 PM »
Yes, much any salt will do, the main difference being how much of the salt you need to use per gram of ammonia generated, as the  non-ammonia part of the different salts are more or less heavy.

Peaktime

  • Guest
Ammonia salt
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2003, 01:19:00 AM »
Yeah just asked to be sure....
I calculated the amount for ammonium bicarbonate, I should react 158g of NH4HCO3 to every 80g of NaOH.....
Here where I live Ammonium bicarbonate is much more OTC than Ammonium Sulphate......(São Paulo, Brazil)
The bad thing is the Sassy oil, because you need a Medical license to buy...