Author Topic: a few questions about various reactions  (Read 1530 times)

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tantric4hrs

  • Guest
a few questions about various reactions
« on: September 20, 2004, 09:19:00 AM »
1)isn't there a way to directly add NaN3 to safrole? then reduce with magnesium metal? where do i remember this from? is there any other way to directly make AB-azides?

2)how would the delephine work with mdp2pol? as in NaI + MDP2Pol -> (DMSO) ????

3)what is alpha-chloromethamphetamine like? is it active?

4)the trick for making MDP2Pol seems to have vanished? what, did it not work? it was solid science.

5)what ever happened to the mg + h2so4 h2 generator? couldn't you use this to bubble gas directly into MDP2NO2?

6)will lithium dissolve in ethylenediamine?

7)what would happen if you refluxed MDP2Pol + alcoholic NH3 + NaN3? apparently this would turn EtOH into EtNH3

thanks in advance


Rhodium

  • Guest
a few answers about various reactions
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 11:50:00 AM »
1) Azides will not add directly to alkenes. I2/NaN3 forms IN3 which in turn adds to alkenes similar to INO2 (

UTFSE for "nitryl iodide"

). There is however no good route to go from there, and IN3 as well as the alkyl iodo azides are rather unstable.

2) The Delephine reaction only works good with primary alkyl iodides, not secondary alcohols.

3) Alpha-chloro-methamphetamine? Where do you want to put the chlorine - on the terminal or the benzylic alpha position?  In the benzylic position you get a compound which will interfer with liver/heart function, see

Post 392817

(Rhodium: "Toxicity of chloropseudoephedrine/chloroephedrine", Stimulants)
and

Post 498300

(Rhodium: "Chloroephedrine Irreversible CYP2D6 Inhibition", Stimulants)
.
On the terminal carbon you will get an unstable compound which will polymerize very easily:

Post 516672 (missing)

(Rhodium: "It is much simpler - hoffmann alkylation:", Serious Chemistry)


4) No, UTFSE. No. No, just theory.

5) It's archived at

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/hydrogen.html



6) Yes. See

Post 532303

(Rhodium: "Lithium in Ethylenediamine, Birch-Benkeser etc.", Stimulants)



tantric4hrs

  • Guest
making the birch OTC
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2004, 07:06:00 AM »
alphachloromethamphetamine does mean a cl in the alpha propene - what else would it mean? i was just curious

chloroephedrine is silly - it's not eped anymore if the OH is gone.

how about this one: alpha-amino methamphetamine? hmmmm


SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION US patent 5,675,038

The invention is directed to a process for reducing or reductively cleaving an organic compound susceptible to dissolving metal reduction comprising exposing the organic compound to lithium in a mixed solution of a polyamine including at least two amino groups, selected from the group consisting of primary and secondary amino groups and mixtures thereof, wherein said polyamine comprises from 2 to 4, e.g. 2, nitrogen atoms and from 2 to about 30, e.g. from 2 to about 20 carbon atoms, and may be selected from the group consisting of alkyl and cycloalkyl amines such as ethylenediamine, N,N'-dimethylethylenediamine, piperazine, diaminopropane, diaminobutane, dimethyl diaminobutane, tris-(aminoethyl) amine, etc., e.g ethylenediamine, and R--NH.sub.2 wherein R is selected from the group consisting of lower alkyl radicals, having from 2 to 6 carbon atoms, preferably ethyl, propyl, and butyl, including all straight and branched chain isomers thereof, optionally containing a lower alkyl alcohol, for a time sufficient to effect reduction.


thus piperazine, from cattle wormer, freebased and dried, plus anhydrous IPA (HEAT from automotive stores) should work. dry the piperazine with CaO - lime. just a thought
this is SO easy to try.

no answer to #7 - i think R-OH + NaN3 + NaOH -> R-N3 + 2NaOH, but still looking for proof


Nicodem

  • Guest
alphachloromethamphetamine does mean a cl in...
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2004, 09:44:00 AM »
alphachloromethamphetamine does mean a cl in the alpha propene - what else would it mean? i was just curious

"alphachloroamphetamine" is the same compund as the hydrochloride of P2P imine, just called with nonsense name:

Ph-CH2-CCl(NH2)-CH3    <=>    Ph-CH2-C(=NH)-CH3 × HCl

And obviously the equilibrium is much more favored for the Shiff base hydrochloride (to the right side).

how about this one: alpha-amino methamphetamine? hmmmm

Again the same nonsense:

Ph-CH2-C(NH2)2-CH3   <=>   Ph-CH2-C(=NH)-CH3 + NH3

Both decompose to P2P and ammonia in contact with water and since P2P, as far as I know, is not psychoactive so are not these two parent compounds.

chloroephedrine is silly - it's not eped anymore if the OH is gone.

So what, so are the names you gave to these compounds. :P


tantric4hrs

  • Guest
alphaaminomethamphetamine would be ...
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2004, 12:29:00 AM »
alphaaminomethamphetamine would be Ph-CH(-NH3)-CH(-NH2CH3)-CH3. why would this decay? geez, what does "alpha" mean in your language? (just kidding) chem speak is often difficult

and alphachlorometh would be Ph-CH(-Cl)-CH(-NH2CH3)-CH3


i mean, is not ephedrine not alpha-hydroxy methamphetamine?


Rhodium

  • Guest
alpha = "Next to the functional group"
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2004, 04:44:00 AM »
what does "alpha" mean in your language?

"Next to the functional group". Hence it isn't specified on which side of group the substituent is placed - and in your case it isn't even specified which functional group the alpha-substituent is placed next to, the ring or the amine.


Nicodem

  • Guest
Alpha to omega
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2004, 09:26:00 AM »
It is so depressing to see that there are still bees making a confusion about alpha, beta, gamma...

When naming possitions with Greek letters, numbers (1,2,3...), benzene ring positions (o, m, p) or atom prefixes (N, O, S...) it is esential to keep to a single system. An alpha position is always alpha for each group atached to it. If amphetamine is called amphetamine because it is alpha-methyl-phenylethylamine then the least to expect from someone who uses the same nomenclature for additional groups, is some consistency.

Besides, I think there is a non-formal consensus that the priority goes like COOR>heteroatoms>aromatics. Hence GHB is not gamma-carboxyl-propanol but gamma-hydroxy-butanoic acid!


tantric4hrs

  • Guest
i admit that chemspeak confuses me sometimes -
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2004, 06:32:00 PM »
i admit that chemspeak confuses me sometimes - don't get me started on the diff between phenyl- and benyl- = as in benzylpiperazine, phenylpiperazine, phenylethylpiperazine, as one adds to the chain. nonsense should be benzylpip, benzylmethylpip, benzylethylpip, etc.

so, what would a drug that has an NH3 on the first carbon of the propane chain (and an NH2CH3 one the second) be called? i'm trying to learn something here, please be helpful rather than critical. thanks


Rhodium

  • Guest
There are several naming conventions
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2004, 07:02:00 PM »
The most recent IUPAC revision says it should be called N2-Methyl-1-Phenyl-1,2-Diaminopropane but if we keep naming it as a phenethylamine derivative, it would in that case be ?-amino-methamphetamine.


tantric4hrs

  • Guest
thank you very much, rhodium-dogo.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2004, 12:03:00 PM »
thank you very much, rhodium-dogo. do you know if this compound would be active?

and PLEASE tell these folk that mukibear came up with the EDA-birch reduction many years ago. yes, this is me. on anti-psychotics. i apologize again for all the weird shit i said back then. but i did revise the method for EDA instead of IPramine. i'm not an amateur or a newbee, not at all.

AND i have a new method that is 100% OTC piperazine - a diamine that can be purchases at walmart for $3 for 6g. it may need a cosolvent, but the solubility diffs should make it easier to use than EDA. this synth i dedicate to strike "all your fallen heroes, held and tied and skinned alive".

peace