Author Topic: Generator setup uses  (Read 3539 times)

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thermalpressure

  • Guest
Generator setup uses
« on: August 09, 2004, 08:24:00 PM »
May I ask what type of setup is to be used. Is a drying tower still necessary. What about a precooler would a regular spiral condenser suffice as a precooler.

Organikum

  • Guest
As told this produces ammonia without water...
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2004, 08:43:00 PM »
As told this produces ammonia without water (dry/dried urea is understood - dry it just below the docomposition temperature... ).

As told the ammonia will be pretty hot though free from water. A iron or SS tube-spiral through icewater will suffice as precooler - a standard spriral glasscooler fed with icewater will suffice if the amount of ammonia is not to large. No copper, no brass but plain old iron/mild steel is perfectly ok here.

Your question is not to answer universally as cooling depends on the amounts processed, heat transfer capability, temperature difference...and, and, and...

hope this helps nevertheless.


quantum

  • Guest
try this
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 05:19:00 AM »
put high ammonia containing fert with sodium hydroxide then heat too easy and fucking cheap


Organikum

  • Guest
Hmmmmm....Re: put high ammonia containing fert
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 07:56:00 AM »
Hmmmmm....

put high ammonia containing fert with sodium hydroxide then heat too easy and fucking cheap




I dont know what this fertilizer exactly contains. Heating ammonium nitrate left a rather big hole in Oklahoma City lately AFAIK.

If the fertilizer is urea then you can skip the NaOH as this is exactly what was told in my first post.

Please be more specific or let it go.
regards
ORG




ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
boom!
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2004, 02:00:00 AM »
now thats bucket chem if i ever did see it...

You need to be sure of whats in it totally to see what you will get out and possible side rxns which may occur, as org said, you may just end up as wallpaper on the crumbled remains of your house via your method.

Any ammonium salt can be used with a base to produce ammonia gas.
Just be certain of the salts % contents if your using fert to see what may/will happen.

-AC


armageddon

  • Guest
ANFO
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2004, 10:38:00 PM »
How can ammonium nitrate lead to an explosion when basified with NaOH? The bomb that destroyed a whole building in oklahoma consisted of NH4NO3, thats true; but the other things needed to get it to detonate are a priming charge and fuel oil (e.g. diesel) - the commercial name for this explosive is ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate/Fuel Oil), it is commercially used in mining for its good usability (pourable mixture) anbd low price, and it definately needs some other primary explosive (i.e. mercury fulminate) to get it to detonate...

I don't think you can accomplish the same thing with lye and fertilizer, so there's no need to worry when experimenting with it IMO.

Greetz A


Organikum

  • Guest
Huhu! Jemand zuhause? Ammonia anhydrous.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2004, 02:50:00 AM »
Huhu! Jemand zuhause?

Ammonia anhydrous. If you add LYE to ammonium nitrate you dont get anhydrous ammonia without extensive drying. If you add NaOH you will have problems in getting an mixture homogenous enough to prevent thermal decomposition - if this is possible at all.

Anhydrous, anhydrous, anhydrous - fuck did anybody read the subject of the thread?
Eh - yes, lets try again: Dis anybody UNDERSTAND the subject? And NaOH and lye are not interchangeable, arnt they?

Oh this hurts.


armageddon

  • Guest
my fault
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2004, 03:41:00 AM »
My fault - I didn't think about it, just thought some water would be necessary to get them to react...
(of course drying is necessary when H2O is added)

If you add NaOH you will have problems in getting an mixture homogenous enough to prevent thermal decomposition - if this is possible at all

I don't think it is possible. Anyway, if Quantum meant mixing solid NaOH with solid fertilizer - I don't think it will react at any appreciable rate at all, even more unlikely that an explosion will occur. To get NH3(g) from solid fertilizer with the aid of NaOH, water has to be present...

And if the fertilizer consists of urea, simple heating should suffice of course, like you said... ;)

Greetz A


ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
q
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2004, 07:05:00 AM »
Just to ask a question,
What is cyanuric acid useful for?

But the method is great, urea is dirt cheap and rather safe when compared to other methods of production, and if the urea is sufficiently dried then yes it would be an excellent way to get anhy ammonia for a dirt cheap basement door price!!!  :)

-AC


longimanus

  • Guest
cyanuric acid
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 10:59:00 AM »
Preparation of trichloroisocyanuric acid from cyanuric acid:












Molecule:

TCICUA ("OC1=NC(O)=NC(O)=N1.[K]OC2=NC(O[K])=NC(O[K])=N2.O=C(N(Cl)C(N3Cl)=O)N(Cl)C3=O")


Step 1: KOH
Step 2: Cl2, UV, 0°C

 And we all know what is trichloroisocyanuric acid used for.


Lestat

  • Guest
Trichloroisocyanuric acid is used in 99-100%...
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2004, 01:53:00 AM »
Trichloroisocyanuric acid is used in 99-100% conc. as a swimming pool chemical I bee-lieve, I have seen it listed for sale at many pool shops online.


armageddon

  • Guest
exactly
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2004, 04:09:00 PM »
Yup, and it's very cheap - sold by the kilo...

Why bother with making it yourself? Doesn't seem worth the work!? (just curious about the intention behind it)

Greetz A


psyloxy

  • Guest
doublethink
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 05:17:00 PM »
Uhm, well - you're completely right. Since the topic came up I wanted to throw in something useful. On second thought it seems futile to try and synth TCCA. OTOH maybe the urea to cyanuric acid patents are interesting in respect to the topic of this thread (I don't know).

--psyloxy--

armageddon

  • Guest
no problem
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2004, 06:34:00 PM »
In case you thought so: I didn't want to flame you - it was really pure interest...

Of course the patents about converting urea to cyanuric are quite interesting, seen in connection with this thread!  ;)

I just imagined on the one hand {all those solvents used, much work and cleaning up afterwards} vs. {walk-in and buy some kilos for some few bucks without any questions} OTOH  :) .

Greetz A


ApprenticeCook

  • Guest
ahem?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2004, 03:41:00 AM »
Why bother with making it yourself?
(in ref to tcca)Its not the main focus of what we want....

in org original post:
Urea + heat = cyanuric acid + ammonia
And the thread title:
NH3 - anhydrous
So the cyanuric acid is just another product of the heating to get out anhy ammonia.... were not interested in it at all... (in this thread anyway)
Infact the talk about cyanuric was started by foolish me when i asked what it was used for..... whoops! off topic!

So is there any further comment on org's method for anhy ammonia?
-AC