I think this thread have to be ended with this last post
   I was experimenting deeply on the hydrate method,and since of course the crystalls are big and pretty as hell,not be able to get a chunk of more 2-3 grams.And talking about  MDMA salt,because with MDA and water i can´t get ant crystall formation ,the bigger crystalls with mda and water are like sugar and very opaque.In my experience,MDA needs an evaporation from al alcohol to make giant crystalls,the better with methanol,very little with ethanol and IPA.I can´t figure out how you Letters can get a solid chunk from MDA....but i believe you you get it of course.Posibly the key it´s the very slow cold down,but the temperature control it´s very time consuming.
   On the other side, i get the solution/explanation but with the undesirable  need to use a cutting aggent like Epson Salts.The key is disolve  mdma salt+anhydrous magnesium sulphate on ratio like 80% mdma 20% anhydrous magnesium sulphate on equal/X2  amount boiling water.
   800 mg MDMA+200 MgSO4 on 1-2 ml boiling water.The key is disolve first the MgSO4,thing that take time with stirring and mortering the sulphate,that seems don´t wanna disolve but finally does,and then add the mdma.
   Let on same recipient undisturbed,on less 24 hours transparent-coloured  single homogeneus chunk..
  I dreamed time ago that with the Calcium sulfate,but discard  it because not able to disolve it on water...but MgSo4 does and crystallize the whole container quickly as hell.No need to slow cold down.And one can make it directly on the microwave if needed on 5 minutes.
  I discard the MSN,of course it´s usually used on meth cutting,and saw form extremely big crystalls on minutes after fusing it with heat,....but seems on crystall mdma analisys data never found it,and i prefer to try to explain the chunks with things that usual are contained on samples,and that it´s common with Calcium Sulphate and Epson Salts...and because the reason of this thread it was not about "cutting",it was about underground chemistry procedures.

   

seems it´s not ended.. .
   Yeah,i believe you Letters about your experience with mda,because i get enormous crystals by slow cooling the solution to room temp and then addind a seed crystal,but never get all container solidified.
   About the epsom salts i do it this way:
   1. On a not too much flat container,like a plain beaker,i put the calculated water amount and put in the microwave to boil.
   2.stop,take the beaker and add the anhydrous epson salts(mine it´s granular and hard,so take something to stir and morter the epson,good with the stirbar retriever.Not completly disolved now.
   3.Put againt to boil,take off the micro,repeat the mortering,....on two times it´s almost disolved.Posibly with grinding the epson on the coffe grinder  one can make all the process on one boiling.like said,mine it´s hard so have to make that to disolve it completly.
   4.when disolved the epson,put on micro to boil again,take of it and add the mdma,it´disolves on seconds easily.I make this way to not expose the mdma to the microwave and boiling water temp too much,and to see if the epson it´s completly disolved
   5.let the beaker undisturbed on a warm place like plants growroom .On 24 hours or less the chunk it´s made.Posibly next time i will try what you say Letters,put on slow heat until all water evaporates,but you see water amount it´s minimal,if that works it will be great.I suposse the secret it´s the MgSO4 can hydrate up to 7XH20....so it´s a big water amount catched...and combined with mdma hydrate capacity too...voilá!......Have to prove it with MDA too but think not will work as fine.
       I have to experiment too with less Epson salts amount,..i think it can work with as less as 10% or almost 5 %...
   
 

thanks for the info!

wouldn't epimerization solve the chirality issue?
back on the old "apiary", there was talk of resolving the l and d isomers of another, non-ring substituted 2' (secondary)  amine.
that discussion, from what afoaf told me, revolved around the hypothetical, "ethical" cut (cutting d with l).
unless were are resigned to making big fake ass xtals with drywall, is that really the point?
mods, pls feel free to advise amending this post, it was just a tirade from an old school apis...

That thread is becoming very boring.....my fault....but....

I was just rereading some of this topic and i have to disagree here sassa    matey I have enjoyed very much reading about your progress both your successes AND your failures/mistakes  

It was definitely "your" fault this thread has SO MUCH USEFUL INFORMATION IN IT which written in beautifully broken english   and Yes my friend, not only 'your fault!'' but now we have a 'but' from yourself to contend with from yourself sassa the man who thought things were getting 'boring!'   pah!  boring indeed...   (just joking matey in case you're not sure )
]

my fault....but.....
   Got better results( if it´s possible

   Got BETTER results! You fuckin Beauty sassa    here is THE Very reason continued comments from the 'xmist' throughout a process are really helpful and SHOULD BE POSTED for other wasps to 'see' and follow how things are evolving

  Especially things like the results of variations in rxn conditions i.e. here the differences between the solvents used, at what temps and ratios et al have been tried, noted and posted making for a lot of good quality data in fresh's opinion

  Personally, on topics such as this one,  I would much rather read stuff written by another wasp/s from their own experiences than I would reading some dry journal entry or even PIHKAL and to get this amount of data on such an esoteric topic as this iis far from easy, if at all possible outside of communities such as this, I would imagine

Reading about the work of another wasp is well preferred over something even more as friendly as a rhodium writeup or somesuch   There is something that lends a certain credibility to hearing the sordid details
 
 Especially from a member whom fresh has read quite a few of their post and respects their efforts

 and at least for me I learned a few VERY cool things from reading your writeups sassa, so honey for you matey

Yep "your fault" as you say  and I say "thanx VERY much for the coool contributions sassa you are definitely our dreamiest russki wasp damn fine imo

thanx to ALL the wasps who contributed asp a big cheers to letters fo his input, haven't seen him round in a while so I hope he's all good

Quote from: jon on April 26, 2011, 04:10:16 AM

dirty mdma can be quite good just ask neil he'll tell you the same.
i don't know why, it's good though.

dirty MDMA is better than recrystalised MDMA.

from experience, the clean big crystals are not as potent as the simple dirty mdma made from the ol home lab.

recrystalize is a bad idea, and the acetone washes, try evaporating, then ipa with some heat and get whatever brown goo remains that shit will be mega potent

This has been stated by smarter bees than I, but doesn't this suggest that recrystallization is somehow separating enantiomers? 
Separation seeks very unlikely.  Dirty molly is likely a mix of MDMA and unreacted ketone, correct?  I believe that it's been stated that MDP2P is not psychoactive.  So...  is there some byproduct that is making a dirty product more psychoactive?  I've always read that recrystallization is always the way to go...

That's probably better asked in it's own thread but I was just responding to other posts in this one.

I think its more that people like the intoxicated feeling dirty drugs may have, its total usual that pure drugs with lesser side effects may discomfort some people.
i guess you know the sentence from a totally spaced out person: "i dont know, i think im not feeling it anymore blabla" my assumption would be that the drug was really clean then and some people are not used to it and need so much side effects, maybe as some sort of connection to reality or such
people complain always about pure drugs i think they are just stupid i always prefer something that fucks only my head up and not some dirty precursorpill that fucks my circulatorysystem up too

btw welcome over here too

yeah but you could afford to let your product dirty back these times, i would also more likely consume some iodosafrole coloured mdma, i mean its the cleaniest process anyway compare that to an amalgamation
only acetates? i thought you wrote somewhere here over the citrate, or was that only related to mda? i have never made any organic salt of any amphetamine, only sulfates and hydrochlorides, preferably the first for precipitation, so would a citric acid solution in aceton be useful in the same manner? would be just like dmt and fumaric acid, very convenient

not sure exactly what hes saying. i know citrates and i know HCL and i know them very well

I know jon knows the dirty mdma has something more to it.

I told you i actually worked up the brown stuff from the acetone washes, its hell potent and it is a different feeling.. the brown stuff hits you more 'broadly' for lack of a better word.. like it envelopes you or immerses you in the feeling.


the clean big crystals are still potent but lack something the dirty stuff had.. so yes something is happening here and what may look dirty is the better stuff.

this is why street X varies so much in effects.. it is all how it was made. i know that different rxns and work ups make different product its just how it is..

same as vodka vs wine

its grapes or potatoes and essentially its ethanol but there is something deeper going on here and whatever it is, its the same with this i believe

ive experienced both.. Trust me the ones leaving it brown and dirty are lazy and after one thing profit.. An off white yellow or even beige powder is exceptable. White and odourless is right.