Author Topic: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll  (Read 89 times)

salat

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« on: June 20, 2010, 06:27:03 PM »
I was making an extract of California Poppy and running into a problem with the Chlorophyll in general making a mess.  I know there are procedures for removing it but they involve chemicals like lye etc which I am not ready to work with yet.  (I have ADD and am clumsy, so until I have learned to pour without spilling etc, I am sticking with really simple stuff).  I have already learned that the Chlorophyll will clog up filter paper asap and even the 90 torr my gel pump pulls won't bring it through.

I asked my chemistry whiz hubby if he had any ideas and he suggested I try a layer of Diatomaceous earth over the filter with a layer of wet sand on top of that to keep the Diatomaceous earth from moving around while I'm pouring.  Worked like a charm and I got a nice orange red clear liquid instead of a murky green/brown stuff that had particles suspended in it.  As far as I can tell it didn't remove any of the actives from my poppy extract.

Thought this might be helpful for others doing plant based extractions.  I used pool grade Diatomaceous earth rather than the kind used for gardening.  I am getting interested in zeolites now, wondering whether Clinoptilolite would be useful in reaction chemistry where you want to remove ammonia from a mixture. 

salat
Salat

jboogie

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 07:29:52 PM »
i would think that careful selection of the extraction solvent would keep you from having to filter out chlorophyll in the first place...

like making hash oil frig sample...

you can start with an alcohol to do the initial extraction, then extract the alcohol with a more selective solvent like ether that doesnt dissolve water solubles like chlorophyll.

you dont have to filter what isnt there.

but good call and thanks for the post.

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 09:01:11 PM »
Quote
i would think that careful selection of the extraction solvent would keep you from having to filter out chlorophyll in the first place.

That may not always be an option - my question is how is it that it *dissolved* into your solvent, and then was able to be filtered out?

What solvent did you use? Are you sure it wasn't tanins, that could otherwise have been allowed o settle out after waiting a long period of time, and that this only filtered those out?

Either way, thank you for sharing - a bit more info about what it is you did though would be helpful.

What purpose of the Diatomaceous earth serve for pools? I am interested in it - I have always wondered if it could be used for chromatography, since it would be much easier to use then to either buy the expensive sillica, or prepare your own.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

DaMoose

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 10:05:42 PM »
Diatomaceous earth is an ingredient in fire proof mixtures..

Like in fireproof safes

salat

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 12:42:23 AM »
I'm a Beginner with a Capital B.

I did a soxhlet extraction using neutral grain vodka.  With herbal medicine sometimes you want the synergy of specific ingredients.  So some are soluable in water and others are soluable in alcohol.   I'm definitely not in Ether league yet.  I'm learning at home from reading and doing with my husband's loose guidance.    I had to stop the extraction in the middle and refresh the solvent because it was getting saturated.   I research stuff on the internet and using Dukes Phytochemistry and Mercks.  I pick my solvent depending on a combination of information and experimentation and sometimes just intuition.  Depends on what I want the herbal to do.   I work full time so can't move nearly as fast as I'd like to - just setting up can take a lot of time.

California Poppy done this way is good for going to sleep and relaxing muscles that are overly tense.

Husband says Diatomaceous Earth is the Filter of Last Resort.  It will work when nothing else will.  (He worked a Summer for a big pool when he was a teen which is how he learned about it - has had a lonnnng term love affair with chemistry)    

I wet it first because it is a breathing hazard and it makes a paste because the particles are very fine and powdery.  I set up a 110 buchner with a #4 Whatman Filter and wet it down.  Then I put about 1/3 inch layer of the diatomaceous earth paste on top.  Then about an inch of wet sand - the diatomaceous earth will move around if you don't weigh it down somehow.   I turned on a 90 torr vacuum and filtered 600 ml of extract through it twice.  First time around was a bit cloudy still.  The main reason I wanted the chlorphyll and other big particle stuff gone is it tends to cause problems when I'm evaporating off the alcohol.  Much nicer extract without it.

We've experimented using it in sohxlet tubes with stuff that was really heavy and tending to clog with mixed results.   If you just make a layer at the bottom of the soxhlet it tends to float up if you're working with a finely ground herb.

Wiki says: It is used in chemistry under the brand name Celatom or Celite as a filtration aid, to filter very fine particles that would otherwise pass through or clog filter paper.  
 
From Leslies Pool Supply:  "Many pool professionals consider Diatomaceous Earth filtration to be the finest. This material acts as a sieve removing smaller particles than sand or cartridge filter systems. D.E. is a porous powder with microscopic openings, that when magnified look like tiny sponges. Clear water can pass through these openings, but particles as small as one to three microns (average grain of sand is 1000 microns) are trapped in the media. The powder is usually poured into a slurry inside the skimmer and then it coats the filter grids."

"Diatomaceous Earth is a remarkable, all-natural product made from tiny fossilized water plants. Diatomaceous Earth is a naturally occurring siliceous sedimentary mineral compound from microscopic skeletal remains of unicellular algae-like plants called diatoms. These plants have been part of the earth's ecology since prehistoric times. DE is approximately 3% magnesium, 33% silicon, 19% calcium, 5% sodium, 2% iron and many other trace minerals such as titanium, boron, manganese, copper and zirconium. Diatomaceous Earth is a natural (not calcined or flux calcined) compound."


I'm extracting Ocimum tenuiflorum using a cold percolation right now and I put some of the diatomaceous earth paste in the bottom of the percolator to see if I can get a cleaner extract from the start.  This is what the tube looks like - the white stuff in the bottom is the diatomaceous earth - I used a bit of coffe filter to keep it from coming out.   You can see the edge where the liquid from the herb pack has started to soak into the white paste (tired of spelling it already!!)  There is a food grade type that you can take internally, but the pool grade isn't recommended for internal use because of the high silica content.

It's also an insulator as someone pointed out, so it could be used as a sort of insulation bath if you wanted to try to keep something at a stable temperature.
The food grade is also sold as an insecticide for those of you into growing stuff.  It tends to dry out critters that come into contact with it.  Don't know all about that - is hard to keep it in place.

salat

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 12:47:06 AM by salat »
Salat

Naf1

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 05:37:34 AM »
Great topic Salat!

I have never extracted the Eschscholzia californica alkaloids but I can certainly guide you in the right direction;

  • Activated Carbon from a pet store, sold as a filter medium for fish tanks is cheap and will work much better than diatomaceous earth. (Not saying that was not a good idea, as it was!)
  • Harsh chemicals like sodium hydroxide can be avoided, a good alternative is sodium carbonate also available at pool supply places(washing soda). And at worst causes irritation, opposed to severe burns. One would always want to be careful though.
  • A Traditional extraction; ie, 80% Ethanol extraction, then let the ethanol evaporate off. Add a non-polar solvent(note) to the residue left over after the ethanol evaporates, and add a dilute aqueous acid solution and warm. Then separate the green oil from the aqueous bottom layer and filter through a bed of activated carbon (from the pet store) until perfectly clear. You can then add sodium carbonate until pH 9 to precipitate some of the alkaloids as a free base, some more acid is added and the volume of the solution reduced(note 2), if you place it in the fridge after reducing it will push the  rest of the alkaloids out of solution. You could buy a small jug of pool acid (35% HCl), and ask your significant other to prepare a dilute HCl solution for you. The dilute solutions are safe to handle and they give them to school kids to conduct experiments. Alternatives to HCl would be vinegar (5% Acetic Acid) which would be a perfect concentration or cleaning vinegar (anywhere up to 25% Acetic Acid) should be diluted a bit, if you do use vinegar the concentrations can vary from brand to brand. And would be prudent to test the conc, via titration, a cheap swimming pool titration kit can be used as an indicating solution, they also provide a color chart to compare with (handy).

    Note; The non-polar solvent in this case is any oil or lipid that will; (not mix with water, and dissolve chlorophyll). It would not be the best choice but for example but butter will work, when making marijuana butter it turns green as its molecules are lipids! And chlorophyll is highly lipid soluble, so mineral oil ect. In industry they spend a lot of time and money trying to get chlorophyll out of edible oils (vegetable, canola, sunflower ect), as it dissolves so easily in them also and holds on to it well. I do not have any empirical data about solubility of chlorophyll, in canola oil for example but would be it worth experimenting with.

    Note 2; From the paper below;
    Quote
    BS, bases whose hydrochlorides are not extracted from aqueous solution with chloroform- protopine, cryptopine, most of the allocryptopine, chelerythrine; and
    BSE and EES, phenolic bases-lauroscholtzine.

    Protopine and Allocryptopine
    The bases in the hydrochloric acid solution which had been extracted with chloroform, were precipitated by adding an excess of potassium hydroxide, filtering, and washing with water until the filtrate was colorless. (The phenolic bases in the filtrate were regenerated by the addition of excess ammonium chloride and extraction with chloroform. Th e mixture of non-phenolic bases was redissolved in the minimum amount o f dilute hydrochloric acid and the filtered solutio~l was evaporated slightly. On cooling a copious crop of protopine hydrochloride was obtained. By reworking mother liquors it was possible to obtain a total of 58 g of protopine from the large lot of plant material. Its identity was established by melting point, mixed melting point (210°), and other characteristics. The bases in the mother liquor from the above were regenerated by adding ammonia and extracting with chloroform. The residue from the chloroform extract crystallized readily in contact with methanol and one
    recrystallization from chloroform-n~ethai~oyli elded pure allocryptopine melting at 160° either alone or inadmixture with an authentic specimen. By reworking- mother liquors there was obtained a total of 61 g of this alkaloid, but no other base, and specifically no cryptopine, could be isolated in pure form.
    I-Iowever, the plant material grown earlier from what was purported to be the wild species yielded cryptopine as its spari~igly soluble oxalate (from methanol) and the regenerated base melted at 221° either alone or in admixture with an authentic specimen. From another lot of plant material there was obtained an oxalate which crystallized in contact with acetone. The base regenerated from this and recrystallized from chlorofor~n-methanol melted sharply at 207O, either alone or in admixture with chelerythrine. The +-cyanide prepared from this melted at 257 "C. The mother liquors from the eschscholtzine hydrochloride yielded some allocryptopine and a trace of protopine.

    Ammonium Chloride is also available easily if you did want to extract the phenolic bases also(as above)

    THE ALKALOIDS OF PAPAVERACEOUS PLANTS
    LIII. ESCHSCHOLTZIA CALlFORNICA CHAM.

    RICHARDH . F. MANSICEA ND I<JU HI SHIN
    Research Laboratory, Dowtinion Rubber Co. Ltd., Gzielpl~O, ?ttario
    Received November 13, 1964

    http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ppv/RPViewDoc?issn=1480-3291&volume=43&issue=8&startPage=2180

    You really have brought up a topic of interest, and wanted to add much more. But will cut it short here.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 06:29:57 AM by Naf1 »

salat

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Diatomaceous earth to filter out Chlorophyll
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 02:28:26 PM »
Thanks for the paper and notes, especially the alternatives to the harsher chemicals.  I'm trying to get a handle on basic stuff and plan on doing some simple experiments from textbooks to familiarize myself with each common chemicals and their handling.  I have a cool hardback copy of "The Chemical technicians' Ready Reference Handbook" that is great for explaining basic techniques.  It takes a bit of time though to acquire the discipline and habits that it will take for me to feel confident handling the more hazardous ones.   I haven't learned to use the sep funnels yet.  Our lesson plan is I sit by and take notes when my husband is doing stuff.  Also I don't have a clamp for one yet.  I don't have a reliable ph testing or experience with that beyond adding acetic acid to improve extractions - btw oriental grocers sell a higher acid (25% I think) concentration vinegar.

I've posted pics of my setup and one of his (in sat night fun post) - you can see how very clean he keeps his area when he's working - although we're both clutterbugs in general.  He has been hammering into me the need to always do things the same way even if the chemical isn't (relatively) dangerous.  I've got a long way to go yet.  Before I started working with methanol, I did an experiment to see what it looks like when it's burning.  Had to turn off the lights to see it.  Husband wasn't pleased though - I did the experiment when he wasn't home - Buddy rule!  I'm working with barberry right now and the yellow staining is showing me how much I drip and spill!

We have ammonium chloride, activated charcoal, molecular sieve 3a, and silica.  

I get really fascinated by all the various chemicals and combinations in plant medicine.  It is interesting to read about each one in mercks and research how they work in the body and experiment with various means of extracting them.  I'm looking for one that would be relatively simple high concentration to use for my first attempt at extracting a single chemical - that and a lot more free time than I've got right now.

What I need to do further research on is the particle size of the stuff I'm extracting compared to the diatomaceous earth.  Was quick and dirty.  I got interested in the Clinoptilolite from looking at stuff at the aquarium store and wondering how the various mixtures worked.  Haven't experimented or bought any yet.

I usually evaporate and recover the solvent off under vacuum.  Then I do a distillation to clean up so I can reuse it.   Cheaper that way

Thanks for the interaction, I don't get to tallk about this hobby with anyone but husband.  After the 3rd person I mentioned it to said "Oh you're setting up a meth lab" I decided it wasn't safe!!


salat
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 02:34:50 PM by salat »
Salat