Author Topic: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone  (Read 148 times)

Tander

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« on: July 06, 2010, 11:13:35 AM »
The two main methods of interest to me for reduction/amination of MDP2P are the Al/Hg reduction using nitromethane as the methlyamine source, and a reduction using NaBH4.  The former method simply uses the reducing conditions of the reaction to also reduce nitromethane and produce the methylamine in situ.  The second method, from the syntheses I have read, requires the use of methylamine gas dissolved into your reaction mixture.

What I am wondering is would it be effective to combine the techniques used in these two methods?  Could you substitute the methylamine gas with simply adding nitromethane to your reaction and allow your methylamine to be made in situ while using NaBH4 as your reducing agent?  It seems much easier than having to pump the methylamine gas into your reaction mixture.  Has anyone tried this and what kind of results did you get?  The only cause of concern I can see is that the NaBH4 is a stronger reducer than the amalgamated aluminum.

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2010, 10:04:27 PM »
NaBH4 isn't exactly cheep when you compair it to the amalgum routes and you will have to use that to reduce your Nitromethane to methylamine as well as having enough to reduce the imine.

It would be so much better and higher yeilding in BOTH versions of the synthesis to use MeNH2 and form the imine THEN reduce it instead of trying to cut corners. Even using nitromethane as the methylamine source during an amalgum reduction you would find it much harder to control then if you just dripped the imine into the reaction. Trying to control two concurrent reactions which both can be fairly violent in an amalgum can get hot and hairy as well as make it hard to determine your exact concentration of imine, methylamine,ketone ect.....

The the Methylimine Schiff base is stable in wet conditions hence the reason NaBH4 was a favorite means in days done past. I know I haven't exactly answered your question but I do pose the question of is it really economical to use MeNO2 as the MeNH2 source or is it just lazyness? Just something to think about.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

lugh

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 876
Re: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2010, 11:38:41 PM »
Sodium borohydride won't reduce nitro groups to amines, so you can't use it to generate methylamine from nitromethane  ;)  You can use thick aluminum to reduce nitromethane to methylamine in methanol, and distill the methylamine/methanol azeotrope and use that in a sodium borohydride or aluminum amalgam reductive akylation   8)
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 12:11:48 AM »
I never thought about that Lugh I was more wrapped up in why someone would waste NaBH4 on such a thing to consider that fact that it might not even work. IIRC NaBH4 will just reduce a nitro to an alkane in an unsaturated compound under normal conditions. I could be wrong though. However it has been accomplish with the use of randy nickle in conjunction.

Rapid, efficient and selective reduction of aromatic nitro compounds with sodium borohydride and Raney nickel


I would suggest that the OP start searching around for NEW methods of reducing imines instead of trying to short cut established methods. Hell if some people looked more into Tungstic acid they may find that there favorite alkene could be aminated in a one pot in high yeilds. Thats something that needs to be researched.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Tander

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 12:31:01 AM »
Thanks for the answers.  Glad there were some straightforward answers available instead of attempting and making a mess of my ketone.  Looks like I'll be sticking to the Al/Hg reduction, regardless of which MeAm method I use.

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Nitromethane as Methylamine source for NaBH4 reduction of ketone
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 01:52:35 AM »
Don't get me wrong now if you have access to NaBH4 by all means add Alcoholic MeNH2 and form the imine then reduce that with the borohydride because The Al/Hg sucks on so many levels. I have heard its excessively hot reaction, wants to run out of control without proper addition rate and is a bitch to filter and workup with so much toxic shit around.

As Lugh said use your Nitromethane to make MeNH2 via Al reduction or Fe+HCl reduction and use that as your methylamine source. You will increase yeilds this way using methylamine instead of MeNO2. Also look into ways of reducing imines as you may find there are alternatives to using either Al/Hg or NaBH4.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!