On the subject of chronic pain a spinal cord stimulator is probably the best way forward no?

Jon, very sorry about the doc pulling you off klonopin (klonopoison is right!) without switching you over to say valium for a gradual taper, and what happened to you as a result, it's just unbelievable.

I had a doctor long long ago who kept me on 1 klonopin per night for 5 years after I lossed everything twice in a flood, and then a fire set by some kid in the neighborhood. It was all just material stuff, but it was right after we had married and had gotten our wedding gifts, it was a bit rough period back then. I finally wanted off the stuff as I was trying to get my physical health back by lifting weights, eating right, etc...as before I had started on klonopin I was an avid weight lifter and lifted weights x 3 times a week for 15 years and had 15% body fat. The klonopin took away my will to exercise and engage in fun hobbies. The doctor sent me a certified leter saying that I did not make my last appointment and she was taking me off the stuff just like that, so I went to another (this time good) doctor, and I explained to him that I read the withdrawal forum on benzos, and they recommended switching to valium at 10mg a day, and then decrease it by only 1 mg at the end of each week, I begged my doctor to help me, and reluctantly he helped me get off it (just because i guess prescribing valium even for a withdrawal program is seen as naughty by the medical board/government, whatever.) Anyhow, it worked, after many months I was off the stuff, the slow taper is the only way to go, otherwise I would have had a seizure or passed out on the road driving home from work, etc. This program of gradual taper actually saved my life. These days, if somehow had to do the same, I would recommend maybe switching to a program of gradual phenaz taper to replace the klonopin, which is just a wicked awful poison. It's too bad the docs prescribe it like candy and have no idea how to get someone off of it, they think people can just cold taper off it, but that it is impossible....people can be hurt for life with a fast taper or cold turkey both. Benzo's are the worst man-made drug ever created and have the most severe withdrawal possible.

I found red vein thai to be the best form of kratom for some reason, glad you like the thai too. Red vein seems to go fast by sellers when it is around but the quality seems to be pretty consistent.

Long time ago used to take hydrocodone every now and then but the withdrawals were nasty with days of runny nose, aches and pains and not sleeping well...whereas the kratom allows me to sleep, get good work done, but i only dream a small dose once at night.

Thanks for sharing your story, feel for you.  I'm so sorry the doctor had no idea how to taper you off, it's a very common story with most all the docs.

Jon, if your in need of benzo's phenazepam is cheaper then most scripts, and is very easily had.

Currently I have some addicted friends trying mitrgynine (pure) to taper off of suboxone and methadone, I'll let everyone know the results, it seems promising thus far.

Tramadol is good for pain as well and very cheap from oversea's pharmacies.

Codeine is available from oversea's as well and with your opiate chem knowledge you could easily cut the price by converting to hydrocodone or something stronger.

I'm suprised your fucking with a doctor!  Stone has better luck sourcing his own medicine rather then going through the scummy white coated middle man.

she threw out the lab.....no!!!!!!!!!!!!! ouch.
i'm so mad at the doctor that made your life like this. dammit.
i was on 1mg a day klonopin and even that was pure hell to get off of...i remember trying to detox cold turkey once and ended up having a mini seizure and driving off the road, luckily i went into a ditch. i was really scared after that, and knew that it was serious business to get off that stuff. i remember when i finally finished the valium taper from 10mg down to 1mg, which took 3 months at cutting it down to 1mg a week, luckily the doc gave me a shitload of 2mg valiums, which made it easy to cut the pills in half and add them together to easily reduce it by 1mg per week. i celebrated when i got down to 1mg of valium by taking a trip to the beach for 3 days. I can't even imagine trying to taper down from 8mg klonopin woah, just tapering down from 1mg of klonpin was pure hell, it was no fun.
some parents are cool and would let you keep a lab if you've been a science geek forever....ouch i was thinking you still had all your stuff. good grief. I'm so sorry to hear that. You are super-smart and you'll figure out a way to make a comeback, hell your posts are all incredible. your mental expertise, experience, and knowledge is just far out, keep up the good work. we love you here. I spend alot of my time when i'm not at work just reading tons of books and the forums, it's entertaining all on it's own. I'm so sick and tired of working for a living, why does life have to be like this? Hang in there buddy.

Dihydrocodeine is far better than codeine, I am prescribed it, and its far better at pain relief, withdrawals are real nasty though.

Was on  morphine IV and IM the last few days in hospital thanks to a bastard of an abscess that made my jaw swell to the size of a tennis ball.

Oddly, I get higher on half a grams worth of codeine syrup than the equal dose of DHC, but pain relief, dihydrocodeine is better.

withdrawals from dihydrocodeine are nasty?  i lucked out and came across some dihydrocodeine and found 60mg to be threshold for a good buzz but 120mg was my "sweet spot" with a big positive mood lift, some warmth, noticeable euphoria and very effective at pain relief.  i took 120-150mg a day on average for a month, but oftentimes found myself doing upwards of 300mg due to redosing.  i found that when i approached 240mg at once the histamine reaction was bad, not nearly as bad as codeine but still pretty bad and nausea as well.  when i stopped there was some stomach issues but for the same length of time i found dihydrocodeine withdrawals to be easy to breeze through in comparison to other opiates.  out of the opiates i have experience with - kratom is the easiest in terms of withdrawals, then comes codeine and dihydrocodeine together in terms of withdrawals, then hydrocodone being worse, then oxycodone being the absolute worst out of the opiates i've had.  i've never done heroin or dihydromorphone.  i've never had demerol or morphine in large enough amounts to push the envelope, i don't like large doses of morphine anyway it's not all that enjoyable to me.  out of kratom/codeine/dihydrocodeine/tramadol/darvocet, i'd easily say dihydrocodeine is by far my favorite weak opiate and tramadol is a big fat piece of shit.  it's not a watered down pill with no balls like darvocet, at least darvocet has a decent buzz if you have no tolerance.  instead, tramadol is a disgusting high that makes me feel like absolute shit.  after reading up on tramadol and what receptors it affects i thought it was going to be like a mild demerol, i was excited cuz i LOVE demerol.  it turned out to be nothing like demerol.  sorry for the rant, anyway i found dihydrocodeine's withdrawals to be a walk in the park in comparison to a similar dosing schedule with other opiates such as oxycodone, oxycodone really kills me with the withdrawals.  hydrocodone withdrawals not as bad as oxycodone withdrawals to me.  i hear tramadol withdrawals are particularly horrible once you do it enough to get them because you get the SSRI withdrawals like brain zaps and the opiate withdrawals, what a shit drug.

DHC withdrawal I found worse than morphine to come off, at 120mg/d (for chronic knee pain relief, with only occasional binges here and there for shits'n'giggles), at times when I ran out, I ended up going round the estate at the dead of night scrounging poppy pods, and was barely able to brew them up on the cooker, ended up using a freezer bag full of pods+their stems that I slashed to bits and simmered in H2O with a little citric acid for as long as I could tolerate

 I have a distinct feeling that opiate withdrawal significantly lowers siezure threshhold, from what I have been told, I had a two grand mal seizures when I withdrew not long ago due to basically forgetting to pick up a new script at my docs office thanks to having some form of severe memory impairment, I am on a very low dose of lamotrigine, as I accidentally once eat a large dose that had been mixed in apple sauce by my housemate, which was left unattended and unrealised by me, thus falling victim to my ravenous sweet tooth. Found out afterwards that it improved my memory issues, and as a handy side effect, allowed me to almost completely suppress emotion.

I hadn't taken it (200mg/d) for a day, just forgot, which has happened before, without any other ill effects than being an irritable motherfucker, but withdrawing pretty badly after a short term taper to lower tolerance to the DHC, apparently I was unwakeable, had fallen out of bed to the ground and twice had a grand mal fit.

Got put back in bed by my housemate, after apparently twatting my head a few times against the wall, and she had stuffed a couple of hundred mg of diazepam along with some temazepam and possibly tizanidine in my mouth, I was still out cold, although from what I was told, merely very heavily  sleeping, but signed a torrent of abuse at my housemate in ASL, not, mind you knowing properly what was going on.

I have had to withdraw many times from DHC, it really does suck arse, the only things  that have managed to touch the withdrawals are repeated rectal doses of tizanidine at doses up to 10-20mg, and similarly large doses of fly agaric tea, benzos , even at large doses of diazzies or temazzies did relatively little, certainly did not enable sleep, of all of that, with baclofen chucked in ad lib didn't get me any sleep, only the tizanidine did, as that stuff reliably knocks me out cold no matter what state I might be in. 

Mentioned where jon? I wondder.......

Yeah, all that post-ictal stuff is pretty shit.

Not sure what the hell happened though, I have been through opiate withdrawal from a very mild 'slightly late from being too busy to take pain meds' state, to 'shit, fuck, ran out, claw my goddamned eyes out with rusty barbed wire until I can run to the pharmacy as soon as it opens and neck 3 bottles of cough mixture before I even get ten feet out of the door'

I don't seem to get the typical W/D symptoms everybody describes, well some, yawning, lachrymation, but aside from that, it presents in me as ever intensifying myoclonus and massive adrenergic overactivity.

Withdrawal at least in me can be TOTALLY supressed by large doses of an alpha2 adrenoreceptor agonist, which prevents all the above, but the myoclonus without control, I think gets close to where it may start being dangerous if it got much worse, and that is from 120mg DHC /day.

Benzos do little for it, only A2 agonists sort anything out, aside from maybe large , very large doses of muscimol, although of course smoking greens helps some, if in that state I can pack a bong without jerking and throwing the damn thing across the room.

well see i was pointing out the pragmatic aspects of that out and yes opiates do give that adrenergic storm that why i'm crippled in my case it was a little worse with the massive amounts of benzos i was cut dry off.
clonidine is used for opiate w/d.
you could try the cinnamyl ester as it is the most lipophillic the only problem is the SAR on those things if you extend the ester more than three carbons potency drops off.
propionic acid is made by mixing calcium proionate with sulfuric acid and distilling.
the hbr in acetic acid can easily be had by mixing it up with h2so4 and nabr in acetic acid and allowing the salts to crash out simply decant it off and you got your stock solution, i've done it myself.
so this here is shit simple.
i used a grolsh beer bottle in a water bath and it stood up just fine to the pressure.
i'd caution you to do that in a covered pot in case and have plenty of water around it to absorb the fuming acids should the worse happen, it never did in my case.



 

sounds like benzodiazepines are more the culprit behind these seizures