Pages: 1

Author Topic: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned  (Read 371 times)

salat

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« on: August 04, 2010, 01:45:10 AM »
I thought I'd start this topic for people to share their methods and problems encountered in attempting to use OTC products for chemistry.

Sun Pac Mildewcide has been mentioned as a viable source of formaldehyde.  However it has some kind of cellulose or other additive in it that sticks to DCM among other things and does nasty things to your methylamine yields.

salat
Salat

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 02:23:42 AM »
I assume it is paraformaldehyde, simply heating it and redissolving ought to allow for this to be easily remedied? Though does spend a lot your time.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 05:22:36 AM »
campa chem is the way to go it has blue dyes and detergents that you can wash with water on a large hirsh funnel.
do'nt worry about dissolving your paraformaldehyde just wash away.
and set to air dry on a plate outdoors as formadehyde is nasty stuff to breathe you want your neighbors to breathe that stuff not you.
just a hint and don't worry about the blue dye your methylamine will be blue colored no matter how hard you try.
me i gas it into solution so i don't care anyway.

no1uno

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 06:02:19 AM »
Hexamine tablets (the cheap Australian Army one is best, the same mob make RDX from it for the Aust. Army Shells) always work best for mine. Just make sure you have a plan to deal with the formaldehyde because it is (a) a methylating agent (and you don't want methyl groups in your lungs do you?); and (b) fucking horrid.


Pure HCl & Pure H2SO4

Pure Hydrochloric acid is made by passing either (a) pure HCl gas into distilled water (CaCl2(s) + HCl(l) ==> HCl(g) CaCl2(aq) or NaCl + H2SO4 ==> Na2SO4 and 2HCl) or (b) passing pure Chlorine gas (from hypochlorite & crappy muriatic acid) into a solution of Sulfurous Acid, giving pure HCl gas and pure H2SO4.

I prefer the latter, Metabisulfite + HCl ==> SO2 gas, which dissolves in water to give sulfurous acid (H2SO3).

That is because sulfuric acid is a bitch to buy here (especially pure) and is not really OTC anywhere in a pure form that I am aware of.

Weigh the liquids in their containers and use a drying train to dry the gasses. That way you'll be able to determine the molarity of the acids without resorting to titration (although you probably ought to titrate it) by determining the increase in weight.


Pure H3PO4

The only way to get pure phosphoric acid at home (unless you have a furnace capable of causing the phosphoric anhydride to boil off) is via the wet-acid process. In this respect, unlike the major manufacturer's, we can start with pure calcium metaphosphate, treatment of which with Sulfuric Acid will give Phosphoric Acid and Calcium Sulfate.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 06:16:03 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

salat

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2010, 10:13:57 PM »
<<I assume it is paraformaldehyde, simply heating it and redissolving ought to allow for this to be easily remedied? Though does spend a lot your time. >>

No he tried a lot of different techniques and the stuff would come over during distillation, and it binds tight with chloroform and when you freeze it you get little droplets floating around.


I've seen threads on the champa chem and it does seem like a lot of work to clean it up.  Seems like there are enough variables in chemistry without having some uncertainty attached to your ingredients.  I'd hate trying to cook that way!!

salat
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 10:19:11 PM by salat »
Salat

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 02:37:25 AM »
Quote from: jon on August 04, 2010, 05:22:36 AM
campa chem is the way to go it has blue dyes and detergents that you can wash with water on a large hirsh funnel.
do'nt worry about dissolving your paraformaldehyde just wash away.
and set to air dry on a plate outdoors as formadehyde is nasty stuff to breathe you want your neighbors to breathe that stuff not you.
just a hint and don't worry about the blue dye your methylamine will be blue colored no matter how hard you try.
me i gas it into solution so i don't care anyway.


Campa chem is 40% formalin solution AKA formaldahyde in MeOH ... no paraformaladhyde there unless its old and polymerized already.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 02:51:55 AM »
Nope, there are two forms of it. One is a blue powder that comes in good sized packages, which are paraformaldehyde.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 05:25:22 AM »
umm n1uno H2SO3 is sulfurous acid .
the only way to make sulfuric acid is to pipe SO3 into sulfuric acid then carefully add water.

no1uno

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
Re: Chemicals from OTC Products: Lessons Learned
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 06:46:37 AM »
Cl2 oxidizes H2SO3 - which is actually merely solvated SO2 in H2O to give H2SO4 + 2HCl (they use the reaction to remove SO2 in scrubbing towers: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/i160061a009)

Cl2 + SO2 + 2H2O =(all one way, gaseous product removes itself)=> H2O + SO3 (aka H2SO4) + 2HCl

Fuck me standing, it even balances :o It also works with I2 and Br2. I don't want to find out what it does to fluorine.

I wonder what would happen if you took the "clathrate" produced by freezing a solution of SO2 in water (it is apparently quite strong), removed the excess solution and just melted the clathrate while passing Cl2 through it... I remember someone once did the experiment from a Japanese article and found that after a few freeze/thaw cycles it gets so acidic they could no longer measure it properly with their pH paper (ie. >1).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 07:06:35 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."
Pages: 1