Author Topic: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???  (Read 196 times)

jon

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is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« on: August 05, 2010, 04:48:31 AM »
that's what this quack of a neurologist says i have.
i don't get it i party party all the time, no seizures.
so can i just keep on  partying? no worries righto???

here's my opinion i get seizures out of nowhere, but as much mdma as i have done i never had a seizure while under it's influence.
i don't see any difference in risk between taking mdma, and having seizures, and not taking mdma and having seizures anyway.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 05:13:09 AM by jon »

embezzler

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 07:51:24 PM »
Hell it's your brain but its probably not a great idea. I imagine that the neurologist is thinking that the thermogenesis or the acute neurotransmitter imbalance could trigger or maybe worsen a future seizure. It may interfere with any prescribed meds too.

did you ever have a seizure before you took mdma?
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Sedit

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 12:08:51 AM »

here's my opinion i get seizures out of nowhere,


They are more then likely not out of nowhere but more of a direct result of drug use then the following withdrawl. Opiates and benzos are highly known for this effect.
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NeilPatrickHarris

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 03:57:10 AM »
don't think anyone can provide a satisfactory answer here as it seems the vote is still out as far as definitive answers go, BUT....

h**p://www.neurology.wisc.edu/publications/08_pubs/Neuro_12.pdf
^ "Do Central Nervous System Stimulants Lower Seizure Threshold?" by Raj D. Sheth and Edgar A. Samaniego

h**p://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120175719/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
^ "MDMA and Seizures: A Dangerous Liaison?" <- i don't have access to this article though

h**p://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=124687
^ what can i say, it's bluelight, a collective of users ranging from ignorant little kids to highly educated people with intelligence far beyond mine in these matters.  everything here will be hear-say but take a look at the links in post #5
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 03:58:54 AM by NeilPatrickHarris »

NeilPatrickHarris

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 04:08:18 AM »
They are more then likely not out of nowhere but more of a direct result of drug use then the following withdrawl. Opiates and benzos are highly known for this effect.

this is absolutely true, in fact i've gotten mild muscle convulsion from benzo withdrawal before (very mild and in weird places) and don't think i really pushed the envelope too badly at all with the benzo abuse.  i've gotten into opiates pretty hard far back in my past (oxy 40's and 80's, never IV'ed or heroin or fentanyl) but never had anything close to a seizure, just sheer absolute hell.  the closest thing to a seizure i ever had was when i was sold rolls one year and told "dont take more than one, for the love of god" so naturally i took 2.  it turned out to be pcp, i laid in the bed comatose unable to move and had the weirdest body feeling almost like i was on the verge of a seizure, i don't know how to describe it but i truly believed i felt like i was on the verge of one.  that was perhaps the weirdest and most dangerous night of my life, i had no control at times because i was in a delerium with weird, violent images running through my head.  i had no idea who i was or what was going on but felt like i was invincible and made of steel.  but that's a story for another day.

one thing i can say about seizures is that unless they get diagnostic tests back that define without a doubt the condition you have or cause of the seizure, then it's incredibly difficult (near impossible) to diagnose the cause because there are just so many potential causes that it makes the whole troubleshooting process very convoluted.  At that point they just blindly treat with symptomatic relief with an anticonvulsant such as benzos or barbs, test the drug's concentration in your blood to make sure it's at a satisfactory level, and also ask for a report of anything that would hint whether your current dose is satisfactory or not, reporting things such as shakes, tremors, and certainly seizures, basically any clue that the anticonvulsant isn't strong enough.  I've had a good friend have to go through this ordeal years ago and that's where this information is coming from.  Strangely enough my friend was given phenobarbital but from what i read, it seems that barbs are considered almost archaic in favor of benzos?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 04:14:27 AM by NeilPatrickHarris »

jon

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2010, 04:20:36 AM »
i have epilepsy because of benzodiazepiene induced grand mal seizures now i get petit mal seizures on a daily basis.
i'm trying to sue the doctor who cut me off and started all this shit but doctors wash each others hands and won't put anything on paper.
i would walk up to him and just kneecap him if i could walk that is, i guess i could do a driveby in my wheelchair put some nitrous in that bitch so i can get away faster.
i think i explained it he cut me off the benzos a week later i have a grand mal end up paralyzed on dialysis and in pretty bad shape still paralyzed.
back on benzos but since then i had two grand mals wound up in the hospital twice on that and i get petit mals daily.
none of this happened before the grand mal ensued after the benzo discontinuation.
so there is a good probability that's what initiated this.
as now i have generalized epilepsy before that never had a seizure.
the lawyer said he would take my case if i could get in writting from a doctor that the abrupt benzo cessation caused or likely caused the seizure problem is doctors cover each other's asses.
i could probably get an addiction specialist on a mission from god who hates pill pushers to see me and lend a sympathetic ear.
that might work.
i could get some acting lessons and tear up when i talk about how these docotrs got me addicted.
just might tug the old heartstrings ehhh???
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 04:38:40 AM by jon »

Sedit

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 11:46:25 PM »
Quote
the lawyer said he would take my case if i could get in writting from a doctor that the abrupt benzo cessation caused or likely caused the seizure problem is doctors cover each other's asses.

WTF????

You want it in writting? Search medical documents dating from the time modern benzodiazapines where created to the present detailing the negative discontinuation symtoms of them... Fuck the doctors because they can very well lose there medical license over misuse of medication that can be physically addictive. Him cutting you off if im correct is totally against the law not just immoral. I went thru the same thing although to a lesser degree after clonazapam cesation.

Wheres Geez been he might be able to shed some light on how these laws read.
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Naf1

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 12:18:38 AM »
In regards to MDMA and epilepsy is a big no-no, epilepsy requires mood stabilizing drugs called anti-convulsants. And MDMA, amphetamine etc has the opposite effect it is pro-convulsive at small or large doses;

Previous exposure to (+/-) 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine produces long-lasting alteration in limbic brain excitability measured by electroencephalogram spectrum analysis, brain metabolism and seizure susceptibility
Giorgi FS, Pizzanelli C, Ferrucci M, Lazzeri G, Faetti M,
Giusiani M, Pontarelli F, Busceti CL, Murri L, Fornai F.
Department of Human Morphology and Applied Biology,
University of Pisa, Via Roma 55, 56126 Pisa, Italy;
Department of Neurosciences,
Section of Neurology,
University of Pisa, Pisa, Italy.
Neuroscience. 2005;136(1):43-53.

http://www.mdma.net/toxicity/seizures.html

MDMA and seizures: a dangerous liaison?
Giorgi FS, Lazzeri G, Natale G, Iudice A, Ruggieri S, Paparelli A, Murri L, Fornai F.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2006 Aug;1074:357-64.

Abstract
In the past decades, there was a massive increase in the abuse of methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in the Western countries. Seizure onset after MDMA is considered to be related mainly to its acute systemic effects (e.g., hyponatremia and hyperthermia). However, additional mechanisms might concur to it as well. Experiments aimed at disclosing the basis for such an acute effect have the advantage of profiting of controlled conditions and the "pure" compounds, as opposed to the limits of clinical data which are biased by several confounding factors. Amphetamines exert profound effect on different monoaminergic systems, which might participate to lowering of seizure threshold. Chronic effects of MDMA abuse on seizure threshold have not been explored in detail so far. Recent data showed that in mice receiving small, repeated doses of MDMA, a persisting pro-convulsant effect toward limbic seizures and metabolic hyperexcitability can be observed. In the present article, we reviewed these studies and we report our preliminary experimental data documenting the lack of mossy fiber sprouting at short time intervals following MDMA, when seizure susceptibility is already present.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17105933

Not only does amphetamines and MDMA and a whole host of other things lower the seizure threshold, disorders of the nervous system also negatively affect the threshold (something to think about). Also once you take it which lowers your seizure threshold what do you want to do, listen to techno under strobing lights! Everyone knows flashing lights are not good as they too lower the seizure threshold of epileptics.......

jon

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 04:09:22 AM »
well fuck me i'm just going to have to disregard this research and find out for my for my damn self i know that quack psychiatrist put me in a pile of shit.
but i'll have to disregard this.
if i don't obtain a judgment in money i'll judge him with hollow points.

Sedit

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 07:41:33 AM »
Jon if you will to fix youself look into glutamic acid receptors. They are the cause of epilepsy thru crosswiring of the brain. Its akin to dumping salt water on the mother board of your computer. Its going to go shitting on you for a while even if it has a built in cleaner of sorts. Im starting to feel that a very easy fix is to drink your morning coffee with aspartme instead of suger becauses its a slight NMDA agonist. Non the lest I suggest trying it and seeing if it eases it if these are becoming daily.




If you dont mind me asking have you done alot of PCP in the past?
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Tsathoggua

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 06:04:39 PM »
Sedit, that is an awful idea.

NMDA agonists are excitotoxic and epileptogenic, if anything, avoid aspartame, there is every chance aspartate wouldn't make it through the BBB anyhow, unless it is actively transported it is going to be too polar to get through, then again some people have odd reactions to glutamate salts, so it is indeed possible for it to be uptaken, at least in some individuals. Aspartate is a weaker agonist at NMDA than glutamate.

Look at the likes of domoic acid, kainate, glutamate, quisqualate and AMPA, they cause seizures and memory loss due to excitotoxicity fucking up the hippocampus and blowing cells apart.

NMDA antagonists on the other hand are anticonvulsant, memantine would probably be the best option, as it induces a voltage-dependent block, as would magnesium chelate supplements, as Mg blocks the NMDAr channel pore in a voltage dependent, noncompetitive manner, memantine apparently takes some titrating and getting used to period, but it normalises NMDA activity rather than just shutting it down ala PCP or ket.
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poisoninthestain

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2010, 07:32:31 PM »
Benzo withdrawal is def. it. I remember learning about benzo withdrawal inducing grand mal's on a few of my patients for clinical on my psych unit. matter of fact it's in a few of my texts. i'm sure you'd get a settlement of some sort then again where's geez when you need him?

probably gonna need an MD's writing like you said.


Sedit

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2010, 10:40:23 PM »
Sedit, that is an awful idea.

NMDA agonists are excitotoxic and epileptogenic, if anything, avoid aspartame, there is every chance aspartate wouldn't make it through the BBB anyhow, unless it is actively transported it is going to be too polar to get through, then again some people have odd reactions to glutamate salts, so it is indeed possible for it to be uptaken, at least in some individuals. Aspartate is a weaker agonist at NMDA than glutamate.

Look at the likes of domoic acid, kainate, glutamate, quisqualate and AMPA, they cause seizures and memory loss due to excitotoxicity fucking up the hippocampus and blowing cells apart.

NMDA antagonists on the other hand are anticonvulsant, memantine would probably be the best option, as it induces a voltage-dependent block, as would magnesium chelate supplements, as Mg blocks the NMDAr channel pore in a voltage dependent, noncompetitive manner, memantine apparently takes some titrating and getting used to period, but it normalises NMDA activity rather than just shutting it down ala PCP or ket.

I stand by what I said. Yes you are indeed correct that the actions of NMDA agonists is damaging to the brain but that is exactly the point I am making. You said yourself, "Aspartate is a weaker agonist at NMDA than glutamate.", which is indeed correct and the glutamate in his body is possibly causing the epilepsy in the first place. Aspartate being competative should weaken the actions of the glutamate already present by fighting over the receptor pocket. It also aids in the biosynthesis of Inositol which has shown effectiveness in treatment of various Bipolar disorders and Myo-inositol has shown effectivness over  SSRIs in controlling panic attacks(something I feel is related to epilepsy) without the side effects that SSRIs normally have.
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Naf1

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2010, 10:50:41 PM »
Quote
well fuck me i'm just going to have to disregard this research and find out for my for my damn self i know that quack psychiatrist put me in a pile of shit.
but i'll have to disregard this.

If it was a single paper you could easily do that, but it has been proven so many times now you really need to accept it. The two papers were cited above as they are relevant. But....

NEUROPSYCHIATRIC MANIFESTATIONS FOLLOWING THE USE OF 3, 4-METHYLENEDIOXYMETAMPHETAMINE (MDMA; "ECSTASY")
RICHARD S. COHEN and JAMES COCORES

1. Fairleigh Dickinson University, Madison, New Jersey, USA
2. Family Counseling Center Morristown, NJ, USA

Quote
Extreme caution must be taken when making interpretations of the BEAM analysis; however, considering the symptomatology reported by this individual, as well as the evoked-potential findings of the BEAM, there remains strong evidence suggestive of epileptiform activity. In this case, MDMA either kindled or exacerbated a neurological condition, perhaps temporal lobe epilepsy. It is also possible that MDMA may have had an effect on the serotonergic system in the brain, as suggested by the presenting symptoms, as well as the efficacy of sertraline HCl, a psychotropic medication primarily known to restore the regulation of serotonergic functioning.

http://www.drugtext.org/library/research/mdma/archive/22/default.htm

I must admit taking you off the benzos was not a great idea (in hindsight), but how could he have known that removing the meds would have such an effect. For example the case above;

Quote
In addition to sertraline HCl, clonazepam was prescribed. After one month, the patient reported that many of the MDMA induced side effects had been ameliorated. Although clonazepam was effective in treating nearly all of the presenting symptomatology, the patient reported increased depressive episodes that were characterized by lethargy, oppressive thoughts, and decreased libido. An increased dosage of sertraline HCL was then prescribed to combat the exacerbated symptomatology. The daily regimen of clonazepam 3 mg/daily and sertraline HCl 50 mg/daily has been the medication combination that has kept the burdensome symptoms in remission.

Now at 14 years of age, obviously the doctor will eventually cut him off. As it is not healthy to keep up a 3mg clonazepam/50mg setraline daily for the rest of his life so they will constantly try cutting back/ removing the meds to see if hes symptoms persist. Their first stupid point would be you would get addicted (so what? if you have to take it everyday for the rest of your life thats a good thing right? at least you wont forget to take it LOL). But Benzos are not long term drugs, as tolerance is also a big part the longer you take it the higher the dose needed. The higher the dose, the more detrimental effects as quoted below in the wiki quote for benzos.

So there has to be some stage where you were cut off, or the meds reduced to see if the symptoms were persisting. And without hindsight it is impossible to know that was going to happen to you, you say it was because of the Benzo withdrawal.....What if you had not been cut off for another 6 months? would the withdrawal then have been better? Would you have just liked a ticket for benzos everyday for the rest of your life (as doctors dont like doing that stuff, they do want to actually fix you). It would have actually been worse 6 to 12 months down the track when you were taking a larger dose and had a stronger physical dependance than 12 months prior to that, so there would have been an urgency to get you off them before what happened would have been a 100% certainty (it seems they did try) and looking at it historically the quicker you get someone off them the better. A stupid gamble in hindsight but I am sure they would have underestimated where you were at, and tried to do the best thing for you (get you off the benzos). As benzos are as you know sedative/hypnotic and are not ideal to have someone on 24/7. This wiki quote says it all'

Quote
In general, benzodiazepines are safe and effective in the short term, although cognitive impairments and paradoxical effects such as aggression or behavioral disinhibition occasionally occur.[5] Long-term use is controversial due to concerns about adverse psychological and physical effects, increased questioning of effectiveness and because benzodiazepines are prone to cause tolerance, physical dependence and upon cessation of use, a withdrawal syndrome.[6][7] In general, withdrawal from benzodiazepines leads to improved physical and mental health.[/color][8][9] The elderly are at an increased risk of suffering from both short- and long-term adverse effects.

5. Saïas T, Gallarda T (2008). "[Paradoxical aggressive reactions to benzodiazepine use: a review]" (in French). Encephale 34 (4): 330–6. doi:10.1016/j.encep.2007.05.005. PMID 18922233.
6. Lader M (2008). "Effectiveness of benzodiazepines: do they work or not?". Expert Rev Neurother 8 (8): 1189–91. doi:10.1586/14737175.8.8.1189. PMID 18671662.
7. Lader M, Tylee A, Donoghue J (2009). "Withdrawing benzodiazepines in primary care". CNS Drugs 23 (1): 19–34. doi:10.2165/0023210-200923010-00002. PMID 19062773.
8. Ashton H (2005). "The diagnosis and management of benzodiazepine dependence" (PDF). Curr Opin Psychiatry 18 (3): 249–55. doi:10.1097/01.yco.0000165594.60434.84. PMID 16639148.
9. Ashton H (2004). "Benzodiazepine dependence". in Haddad P, Dursun S, Deakin B (eds.). Adverse Syndromes and Psychiatric Drugs: A Clinical Guide. Oxford University Press. pp. 239–60. ISBN 978-0198527480.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine

So although yes hes actions pulling the meds was responsible for the actual seizure, your pre existing condition is on your head. I remember reading a post where you had taken 7 grams of MDMA in a single sitting, I remember thinking you were suicidal. As I have read papers were they were reliably putting cats and dogs down with small lethal MDA injections, so it seemed crazy. When questioned you basically said that was 'par for the course' you always enjoyed excess. After reading some of the studies posted, you may have been walking away with much more damage than you thought (lowering your seizure threshold significantly). The effects I am talking about seem to only last around 7 years, so all is not lost. Smash a mirror (seven years bad luck!), smash too many disco biscuits (seven years bad mental health).......But my point is especially with benzos, you had to come off them at some stage and it is shown the longer you are on them the worse they are. Also the doctor may have noted some of the negative results of the drug predominating over the actual problem. In particular benzos that cause bad addiction and generally bad physical and mental health after awhile, so maybe decided you needed to come off them quickly before it got worse. Which ended up in a bad seizure, but you are still here and now not on benzos.

You will get better in time Jon (it will take some years but it can happen), but for fucks sake dont take any more MDMA. You can take speed but DONT TAKE ANYMORE MDMA if you want to get better in this life. Accept you fucked up and move on without MDMA, rebuild your life and as that slowly eventuates so will your health. But if you keep on with the drugs ect, please dont hold anyone besides yourself accountable for how you end up.

I just lost a loved one to cancer (lymphoma) very quickly (diagnosed at late stage IV when it could not be hidden anymore, suffered a bad stroke one night that was directly related and could not get out of bed the next morning. Could not talk properly ect, went to bed all fine not knowing there was a problem {docs said they would have known and been hiding the symptoms} one night and the person that woke up the next day was not the same person I knew for all those years (not close), died 2 days later after being in ER consistently so never really saw them, except we were let in at the end and held hand while dying/died at hospital), the very first thing I did was try and blame myself or someone else (anyone) it is the natural thing to do. I was very lucky in this case, as no one even knows what causes it (they cannot even say whether it was a genetic trait or genetic mistake (abnormality), or was an enviromental (external) factor. As such it was completely out of my or anyone elses hands, thats just how it went (no ones fault, just life). All I could do was be happy for the time I got to share with them, and wish I had more.

jon

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 06:28:05 PM »
again i'm sorry you lost your loved one i have been through the same and being the pall bearer for your only brother is a real bitch. a lesson in life actually putting your own flesh in the dirt.
i took 4 grams perhaps you are right though because wiggin that hard is a lot like a seizure just not.
everything bounces and shakes i called it rolling.
no harm right? maybe not.
i'm still on the benzos at the pain of violent tremors and shakes much worse than it was before, i could cut it loose and forget about it, now i miss my meds and i get the "oh shit" feeling, mouth locks up, start with the tremors.
the man has practiced for 30 years he should know very well that a ridiculous dose like 8 mg the highest is 12 can't just can't be abruptly stopped.
sedit mentioned something about that being unlawful i can't find any statute to that effect.
they get away with this sort of negligence because just about any lawyer will take this case with one exception, a statement in my medical record that this was the "proximate cause" a legal expression, doctor's don't snitch on each other though.
to answer your question sedit i did pcp twice and it screwed my noodle for a minute it only takes one use and your psychotic the next 3 months but yeah pcp it's like floating when your walking the after effects are terrible.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 06:35:20 PM by jon »

Naf1

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2010, 12:15:29 AM »
Quote
the man has practiced for 30 years he should know very well that a ridiculous dose like 8 mg the highest is 12 can't just can't be abruptly stopped.
sedit mentioned something about that being unlawful i can't find any statute to that effect.

Well if you wanted to win the case regardless.....

The problem here legally, is that someone (family member) may have said you were abusing drugs or even if you provided enough evidence or even appeared as if you could be a drug addict. You need to read your medical history carefully. Then they followed protocol for substance abuse withdrawal, however if this was your long standing doctor and you were just following his advice taking the benzos and nothing else and the question of you being a non prescription drug  abuser was never raised. Then he should never of cut your benzos from full dose to nothing, but remember the times we live in it is extremely easy to demonize drug users so if that was documented in your medical history it will be brought up at the hearing and will not look good for you. In fact as soon as you are painted as a 'junkie' you have no chance of beating a medical professional in court.

I must say here, if you were self medicating the benzos (even if doing so correctly). And presented to a conventional hospital, there prognosis would be 'substance abuse' and you would be cut off sometimes without a taper. That is protocol and they cant get into trouble for that, so if there was any questions of substance abuse at the time your chances of winning go down significantly.

Quote
"In law, malpractice is a type of negligence in, which the professional under a duty to act, fails to follow generally accepted professional standards, and that breach of duty is the proximate cause of injury to a plaintiff who suffers harm. It is committed by a professional or her/his subordinates or agents on behalf of a client or patient that causes damages to the client or patient."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpractice

Now you will have to check within your jurisdiction, but the protocol (generally accepted professional standard) for taking someone off benzodiazapines does not proceed with them getting cut off all meds like what you are stating happened. They NEED to taper off with barbiturates or other benzodiazapines either quickly over seven days or over an extended period of time. If you received 7 days worth of barbiturates particularly phenobarbitol this is void, also if you were suspected of taking substances of abuse (either by someone saying something, or just by the doctor suspecting it) also void. To make a malpractice suite stick, you need to show as much evidience as you can you followed exactly what he said including taking benzos that he prescribed for the whole time then him cutting the meds. And where not taking other drugs of abuse (well make sure it cant be proved anyway), the more positive witnesses and people that can vouch for you can take along the better. Also if you have no history of seizures/epilepsy prior to this it is extra good for you, as you can use that also.

Former user of Klonopin sues doctors
http://www.benzo.org.uk/klonopin.htm

Benzodiazepine Class Action Emerging Class Action Lawsuit
http://www.sueeasy.com/class_action_detail.php?case_id=389

Things you want to have on hand;

  • Relevant protocol for your jurisdiction regarding cutting off a patient from benzos;


Did he follow the generally accepted professional standard for your jurisdiction regarding removing a patient from benzodiazapines?

What are the protocols (in your jurisdiction) for removing a patient from benzodiazapines that has been identified as a 'drug addict' (this one is just for intelligence gathering)?

  • Find as much evidence as you can that a tapering off procedure involving barbiturates is normally used to prevent seizures when removing benzodiazapine medications.


Is easy just find a relevant and trusted medical book. For example find a referenced quote like;

"In some instances, a "detox" or other inpatient facility will take a person off a benzodiazepine "cold turkey" — replacing it with a short 1 - 2 week taper of phenobarbital (a barbiturate) to prevent seizures.Most physicians and medical authorities agree that in the majority of cases a slow taper is preferred to a rapid taper or "cold turkey" withdrawal from a benzodiazepine. "

The phrase "most physicians and medical authorities agree" makes it look like a generally accepted professional standard, which means if your doctor is not following it he is in the minority and somewhat of a 'maverick'. And if thats the case did he warn you he was a maverick? going against the medical authorities opinion? Did he warn you if you went to any other doctor you would have received standard protocol and not what would have to be described as either negligence or an experimental procedure! Were you warned it was experimental? As if in 100% of the cases of other doctors you get a taper why did you not?

Also find actual case records of seizures from benzo withdrawal by cutting straight off, believe me you would be able you wheel in a filing cabinet full of records. And also other medical literature regarding the above tapering off process for benzos and why they needed to do it (hint).

  • Most important; Write to as many, email as many, get in contact with as many professionals in this area you can(moreso from Universities ect, as you said actual Docs wont want to rat each other out for you). Explain your plight and give your records ect. And just HOPE just one specialist will take pity, as all you need is one to stand with you in court (even a formal letter from a couple of specialists would help out)saying...He did not use the standard protocol and you would expect a large percentage of patients to suffer seizures cutting off such a large dose. And hes proximate cause goes out the window and you look extra good.

    Quote
    proximate cause

    How come someone could predict your exact case by reading the benzo wiki written before this happened to you?

    "The crucial factor of proximate cause under the American legal system is foreseeability combined with "but for" causation. Once it is established that the causative agent did, in fact, cause the untoward result, the next question is: How foreseeable was that to the actor at the time s/he acted. According to Professor Carl T. Cone, this line, beyond which absence of foreseeability demands that an actor not be held liable, is called a cut-off line, based upon the public policy of fairness in holding an actor responsible only for those things s/he reasonably could foresee. (Cone criticizes this rationale in that results not foreseeable by the actor at the time of the act, shouldn't go unpunished, as it were, because of the actor's arguable short-sightedness).In essence, proximate cause determines whether the harm resulting from an action was reasonably able to be predicted."


    The doctor in question could have followed generally accepted professional standards, which states to taper off with barbiturates to avoid seizures. He did not taper off, as you said a doctor of 30 years should know better he knew the risk was there, so simply prove it with the literature. Tapering you off by giving barbiturates then tapering their dose off for example is a well accepted protocol. In fact if the fucking wiki states you should not cut off benzos for fear of seizures, he must not have picked up a medical book in 30 years if he did not expect that (if he did not know that, he should not be prescribing meds to people)imagine what you are going to find in the literature! It will be stated in every medical book, you could argue he must not of read one. Also doctors get Journal of Medicine sent to them for free and are meant to keep up with whats going on. If you could get the Journals regarding the subject, would be handy if he had never seen them before ask him if he is still working in the 80sl? So beforehand find literature from the 80's and before regarding the subject and say well you must have missed these when you were keeping up!

jon

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 03:17:23 AM »
the questions of forseeability and proximal cause are established i was'nt even warned of the dangers.
the man will be questioned on his medical knowledge no doubt.
the dealbreaker is going to be i tested positive for thc and morphine.
it could be explained as dealing with the negative side effects of withdrawaling the benzos.
a lot of that history could be suppresed as to it's biasing nature and the fact that i suffer from a mental disorder with a high commorbidity of substance abuse.
i don't think that will happen if i understand the republican leanings of the jurisprudence here.
but they got drug addict stamped all across my forehead so my next remedy is just going to have to be a little street justice, summary judgement so to speak.
i do appreciate your input very much as you are an excellent researcher.
and of brilliant mind.

a little off topic but have you ever seen so much fun stuff damn customs!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1042790/Pictured-The-worlds-biggest-haul-Ecstasy-tablets-concealed-3-000-tins-tomatoes.html
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 03:34:07 AM by jon »

Naf1

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2010, 03:28:40 AM »
Go here, and fill out the form. See what they can do for you (what do you have to lose?).

http://www.sueeasy.com/file_your_complaint/personal-injury_medical-malpractice.php

jon

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2010, 03:52:07 AM »
yeah i think they are a paid consultancy type site i already checked them out lawyers don't go to school to help people most of them take ADA jobs straight outta law school.
but your right they got me burnt on the drug addict issue.
i'll deal with him
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 03:03:19 PM by jon »

shroomedalice

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Re: is it okay to take mdma if you have epilepsy???
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2010, 12:04:38 PM »
amphets are no good for epilepsy I had a mate that was with me on a few synths.

poor fucker fitted for weeks.

having said that they fitted as soon as they came down were as you dont so I would

say its not such an issue with you.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 12:06:33 PM by shroomedalice »