Author Topic: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions  (Read 149 times)

TooCold

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Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« on: September 30, 2010, 03:34:03 AM »
So I was reading Reductions in Organic Chemistry by Milos Hudlicky when I came across the fact that Ethylenediamine can be used in dissolving metal reductions in place of NH3. Know I knew that methylamine gas could be used in place of NH3 but methylamine is just as hard to obtain if not harder. I am assuming that the ethylenediamine reduction can reduce ephedrine, if it indeed can be done why isn't this common place? Ethylenediamine is much safer to work with than anhydrous NH3. Also, are the same molar equivalents of ethylenediamine used when reducing ephedrine as when using NH3? Does one need to reflux the ethylenediamine during the reduction or will it reduce the ephedrine at below its boiling point?

Vesp

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 04:49:43 AM »
Might want to read through a bit of the comments hinted around about this idea on the forum.

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php?action=search2

Not to sure if it will be of much use to what you don't already know.
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TooCold

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 05:48:12 AM »
I had already searched the forum for ethylenediamine and didn't see much about this topic. Is there any specific thread that you are referring to that contains relevant info.

dwarfer

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 11:43:24 PM »
Seems to me that there is a real separation problem
at the end of the process.

Leastwise, that's what I've heard. ::)

Don't know first hand.

Sedit

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 12:15:50 AM »
Seeing as the boiling point of Ethylene Diamine is 116 °C which IIRC is well below the BP of N-Methyl-Amphetamine I would theorize that a simple distillation would work.

If that is not the case there is always the solubility issues that could be worked with performing repetative liquid/liquid extractions with Saturated brine solution and ether to remove the EDA from the freebased amphetamine. Extract the main EDA with saturated brine and Et2O 3 times and combine the portions then wash the ether with brine until PH of the H2O is stable enough. The EDA will raise the PH of the water dramaticly if it is still being extracted which should give a general idea as to when enough washing has been performed.

Neutralization with HCL and evaporation would allow for recovering of the Ethylene Diamine Dihydrochloride if desired.

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frankblank

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 12:04:55 PM »
there is a paper in the documents area at drugs-forum (i cant get registration there to work) called something with 'reduction of benzylic alcohols' and lithium in the title.  where they talk about using methylamine, ethylamine, and isopropylamine as a second solvent.  they also added alcohols.  they said that the best mixture was isopropylamine, EDDA, and 2-butanol.   I think thats right.  but i was very interested in using isopropylamine and EDDA, then maybe just a small amount of ammonia if that didn't work. 

The old Birch by Mr Clean stated that the theoretical amount of ammonia necessary was very low, so if using 2 or 3 other solvents (plus ammonia is probably soluble in the mixture at temps higher than using ammonia alone would allow),  then perhaps much less ammonia could be used.  thats my theory at least.  I have no experience with dissolving metal reductions.  but i highly recommend the paper at drugs-forum.

frankblank

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Re: Ethylenediamine dissolving metal reductions
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 10:32:18 AM »