Author Topic: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders  (Read 224 times)

psychexplorer

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FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« on: January 21, 2011, 01:41:23 AM »
This came to me by way of a friend who works at a distributor popular with the pyro community.

He relayed to me that ATF had been fishing for potentially suspicious orders involving hexamine.

For those of you who don't know, hexamine is the precursor to RDX in a rather simple synthesis requiring only HNO3 and H2SO4.

I don't know if this was precipitated by actual problems with k3wl or whether it was just general terrorist paranoia.

I also can't say if it was specific to this supplier or a new watched item part of an industrywide campaign. I didn't ask as I won't get that specific.

Anyone ordering hexamine might want to get it elsewhere from HNO3 and H2SO4. That combination, sold to an individual, is no good and is asking to get flagged.

I hope this is not a redux of the NH4NO3 paranoia.

If hexamine becomes a problem, it can be sourced OTC from Esbit brand fuel tablets at any Walmart or outdoor store. I can't comment on their purity or formulation beyond them being predominately hexamine with unknown binders and additives in an unknown quantity.

It'd be a shame to lose this one, too, because of the energetics out there.

Oerlikon

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Re: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 02:53:19 AM »
Sounds stupid to control hexamine!

RDX and XMH is not that easy to make and hexamine can be found all over USA.
Any "terrorist" would use something like ETN  for small/medium and AN and/or NM for mega bombs.
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psychexplorer

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Re: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 04:22:12 AM »
I seriously hope this was a one-off problem with some idiot customers. Losing easy access to prepared tech or better hexamine is a serious inconvenience.

RDX is actually fairly straightforward to make. Whether an idiot can do it or not depends on the grade of the idiot, but I do recall a program from the History Channel which mentioned biker gangs making bombs out of stove fuel, which is probably the PC way to say RDX from hexamine.

Terrorist idiots will do what they do even without it, even though military best practice uses a booster with all AN devices. Their AN is presumably much better grade than the agricultural AN prills a terrorist would use (or even ANNM).

If this is the new thing, it's just more reactionary nonsense which will hurt honest amateur chemists and the law-abiding pyros, who use it legitimately in star formulations.

Reminds me of the defacto ban on psuedo. The only thing that effectively stopped was sick people from feeling better.

atara

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Re: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 03:12:36 AM »
Of course, HNO3 and H2SO4 can also make TNT and nitrocellulose and a whole galaxy of other nitrated fleeps and florps; if you've got a solution containing a measurable amount of NO2+, there's really nothing you can't turn into an explosive. Even glycerol.

micro

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Re: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 12:50:54 PM »
If idiots make explosives from hexamine it is HMTD or HDN, not RDX.
Idiots can't get the needed reagents for RDX production (white fuming nitric acid for example).
HMTD and HDN are a different matter. HMTD is a easily prepared organic peroxide and HDN is hexamine dinitrate.

Oerlikon

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Re: FYI, heads up on hexamine orders
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 04:00:09 PM »
Quote
Of course, HNO3 and H2SO4 can also make TNT and nitrocellulose and a whole galaxy of other nitrated fleeps and florps; if you've got a solution containing a measurable amount of NO2+, there's really nothing you can't turn into an explosive. Even glycerol.

Yes in theory,not in practice!

I made every usable explosive in existence,apart from some novelty things cubanes.
TNT is worst choice for home chemist,no doubt about it!
You nitrate toluene three times and lose a lot of valuable acids.
It's best made on industry scale where they recycle them.

Nitrates of cellulose are last stand explosives,too bulky.Modern gun powders are mostly NC+NG.

Only someone totally suicidal would make NG fair amount! (I did!)

Avarage person who doesn't really understand reaction mechanisms (we call him an idiot!)
would be trained to make stable nitrates of polyolic alcohol and make them in less than kilo quantities:
ETN,PETN,EGDN even nitrostrach.
Assuming he have/can make detonator he would use it to set of charge mentioned above and
detonate large scale AN+fuel based device.

Don't make disinformation about AN,it's mass media propaganda that it is hard to find or
inferior in quality. You simply dissolve it in water,filtrate crap,crystallize and dry.
I did it hundred times and allways got full detonation!
It's too irreplaceable to be be banned.
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