Does anyone know definitively the legal status of acetophenone? Ab2 was talking with another bee recently who attempted to order some from her normal chem co, only to be informed:

"The chemical product(s) being purchased is/are scheduled as a Class A precursor, in Schedule VI, Part I of the CDSA, and could be used in the clandestine production of controlled substances."

And to order it would require filling out an end use declaration. Apparently this happened in Canada. Ab2 has been all over RCMP, Health Canada, DoJ websites and there is NO mention of it anywhere. although Phenylacetic acid acid is on the schedule and it isn't a huge leap to go from one to the other. By the same token HgCl2 is also in the same category, cannot be purchased without filling out and end use declaration, yet it does not appear on any of the schedules.

Does anyone know the status of acetophenone in the US?

Does anyone have a "current" list of scheduled chemicals? Ab2 gets the impression that what is online is at least a decade out of date.

that's odd how are you going to make paa from acetophenone?

Willgerodt Reaction

check it out: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/willgerodt.html

And no, not an overzealous chem co. The form had aHealth Canada logo on the top, so it is official, in Canada anyways . . .

The DEA SSL is 12 years out of date!  Ab2 almost thinks that it is intentional, all this ambiguity. But it seems clear that the chem companys are working from a different list than what is posted.

It may be 12 years old, but it isn't 12 years out of date.

The only thing on there which is dated is RP, which was subsequently send to the list I graveyard. Everything else isn't restricted but does raise some questions.

The point of the SSL was to make distributors aware of what was popular in clandestine cookery but not hot enough to be listed. Distributors are generally unaware of the specific recipes popular with the cooks.

If you look at the list, it still screws up our acquisition, even today.

I'm sure the DEA has their own internal shit list. Knowing their budget, they probably have their own datamining software, all of which is useless if the only person seeing the order records is the clerk at the chem distributor. The smaller guys do not run batch data transfers to the DEA for prior approval.

I don't see why listing tableting machines is that unreasonable, from their perspective. It's a suspicious item, with limited use, and typically only needed by verifiable businesses. If a couple tatted guys pull up in a white van and buy one for cash, the SSL listing lets them massively fine the distributor. Clearly a breach of personal liberty, but at least there is a chain of logic behind that one.

Their war on iodine doesn't make any sense. The only people shut down by a lack of I2 are the low grade cooks. That bunch will be shut down anyway from a lack of psuedo. That didn't stop them from screwing with the general public.


It's also worth mentioning that watchlists can appear to change from one place to another, when actually the culprit is management and its prior frustrations. If an unlisted, non-SSL chemical causes DEA trouble for a distributor, they might require ID, EUDs, etc. in the future. I've seen several places selling common items later concocting homebrew paperwork for specific, common chemicals with a definite use in clandestine synthesis, even though those chemicals are not controlled in any way.

If you and I are thinking of the same supplier (and I think we are), then word has it they actually did have a run-in with the DEA. After getting a good talking to, the chemically-ignorant owner made a pointless, knee-jerk reaction, asking for unnecessary EUDs on stuff which isn't that hot, while ignoring other things which are way more interesting. His policy was a reaction to an actual problem which had nothing to do with generalized lists or advisory memos. He posted this much elsewhere within the photo world, so this isn't hearsay.

jon, browsing through his catalog, I'm sure you can imagine much better things from the EUD-free side than from those few things which stupidly require a bit of paperwork.

It's a good example we can learn from. A photo guy who knows nothing of drugs (who could just as easily be a chem company who also knows nothing of drugs) reacted to an existing problem. Our other suppliers may, too. There is no way to know for sure what chemicals are on a company's internal shitlist. We know of the DEA's public lists, and we know some suppliers advertise a paperwork requirement on certain items, but we have not the slightest clue what actually goes on in the ordering department.

Lowly clerks wouldn't know good clandestine chemistry if it called them up and asked to open an account. We have no way of knowing what might be shitlisted at a particular company because we have no way of knowing if and/or what they had sold in the past to busted labs.

That's why it is easy to say don't order x, but a bit tougher to say that it is ok to order y. A lot of things are questionable or unknown, which is why it helps to have an order history full of safety goggles, pipettes, and ACS NaCl. If the account doesn't reek of a cook, then the clerk has less of a reason to pay attention to that office memo about acetophenone, PdCl2, allyl alcohol, benzoquinone, hexamine, catechol, HNO3, or whatever other reasonably common chemical might have been declared to be the devil at one particular firm.

I have to agree with antibody's statements regarding the scare tactics employed. I can still easily buy HgCl2 within the states no problem but i prefer to make it since its cheaper...same goes for most of the people working at suppliers that don't really know these off the record reactions and only really come after you when you do things list 1 or 2...everything else...unless done in excess or multiple combinations...is pretty safe(definitions of safe may vary)...in reality a lot of what's scheduled can easily be made at home...that surveillance list doesn't frighten me at all. List 1 I almost always look to china if it can't be chopped from another compound. A certain auction site is very useful for that very reason.  Normal people getting rid of chems and just looking for a quick buck...easy loophole no company reporting.

The most unbelievable thing is the difference between simply stating "I'm Mr. Smith and I want chemical A." and "I'm Mr. Smith with Anderson Perfumeries and I'm interested in chemical A".  It could totally be the most bullshit business name ever, completely fake, no credentials. The door is open. Wild.  Talk the lingo, always request MSDS, etc...don't be stupid. Once a supplier knows you you're in.  I always like to mention I'm a returning business customer and their service has always been great.

Iodine scheduling is ridiculous it hurts everyone...its so useful for everyday reactions I just cannot believe it. I'm waiting for the day when they throw down the banhammer on KI...I don't think it'll ever happen but I read a DEA article stating that they are aware of it's use and contemplating regulating it. That was in 2010.

That very popular auction site itself is extremely friendly with law enforcement. They go out of their way to please the pigs, to minimize their own consequences when people list up stolen goods or fake merchandise.

Most chem sellers are independents and individuals who aren't reporting anything. The site, on the other hand, makes completed listing data available via API. This data is used for everything from marketing, to pricing/listing software, to LE datamining.

Any chem bought off that site can be assumed to leave a trail in an LE computer, somewhere. Whether one order of something common and harmless gets any attention is another matter.

If you have a simple way to RP please do post in a new thread. Because as it stands I have one of the simplest ways proceeding thru WP, there is using Sodium Hexametaphosphate and that is not what I call simple. Much risk for explosion if water is present and the entire setup is a pain.