i like heroin too much to ever get a vaccine against it.

You wouldn't overdose because the vaccine positions the immune system to sequester and destroy the drug molecules

Yeah, that would be akin to getting a pussy vaccine.

Stupid, stupid bastards!

Unless that vaccine is EXTREMELY selective, and I mean, the equivalent of a sniper being able to pop a bullet into a 6mm hole with a 5.56mm round at a 500 meter range 9 shots  out of 10, then what happens when a person so vaccinated is busy screaming in agony, after a car crash meatpastes the guy?

If its effective against 6MAM I cannot see it being effective against the standard first-line response painkiller the world around. Morphine. Of course there are other painkilling opiates available, but your average persistent, determined smackhead, is going to realise that too, not just the doctors.

If its administered as part of the HIV vaccine, if such a product is developed as a binary agent (with overtones intended, of referring to the OTHER agents commonly distributed in binary format.......), without the knowledge of the recipient of the HIV vaccine...someone, sooner or later, and I doubt very much its going to be 'later', will be PISSED, having been given a drug/medicine without either knowledge or consent.

Can anybody say 'court case' or spell the words 'lawyer, you dumb motherfucker'

I'm not so confident either, about the not overdosing bit. Actually, I can see it potentially happening. I don't know how much of an agent the body actually has the ability to respond to and destroy immunologically. It must be finite, just as the capacity to carry oxygen, or release a given neurotransmitter from its vesicles in the synaptic knob. Somewere, someplace, there has to be a line that can be crossed, with the availability and use of a given quantity of heroin. This is likely to be different per person, in fact its near enough certain to be.

People are going to try it, and if they are persistent enough I would imagine they will succeed in overwhelming the vaccine-induced immune capacity to respond.

One other thing about this that bothers me, well, there are a couple actually, but one of them is the potential for addicts to start thinking 'hmm...this is the immune systems doing, lets try an immunosuppressant drug along with the heroin'

Of course if they already HAVE the HIV virus infecting their system, then their immune system is going to be supressed in the first place, either making it easier to cross that same line..and maybe trip over it, or render it entirely inert.

This is, IMO, a very dangerous road to start going down. I very much doubt they could make it mandatory at birth (although I imagine, that it is temporary, and whilst it might last many years, I doubt that it would be permanent. After all, there is a need to give booster shots for some immunizations, such as for example tetanus, if sufficient time has elapsed between the first immunization and the subsequent injury. People would likely be up in arms, even those who hate drug users, about a mandatory anything being forced into their children.

But social pressure, medical pressure, all sorts of things like that could be put into place to make it heavily likely that mothers will be influenced to subject their new kids to this without thinking of the consequences. For cocaine, if the kid never chooses to use drugs then it is unlikely ever to have an impact (unless its a dirty drug so to speak and decides to start targeting ALL tropane anythings anywhere, in which case, if you ever need atropine in a surgical context...oooh shit, sorry, we just fucked you and you can die on the table instead, sorry about that.) but morphine? what are you going to do, hope and pray little johnny smith never gets caught in a car crash, has his face smashed in by muggers/bullies, or falls and breaks both his legs?

Paranoid horseshit jon, as much as I like a sharp object to stick between the government's ribs. Preferably a rusty one, contaminated with HIV

A possible patient zero was identified, one david carr, who presented in 1959, nearly ten years before that date.
And two KNOWN HIV cases were identified near kinshasa a couple of years afterwards. I doubt very much that creating a synthetic virus (is this what you are claiming?) was possible with genetic  technique available at the time. Watson, Crick, and Rosalind franklin, the X-ray crystallographer only discovered the structure of DNA in 1953...so most likely, DNA ligase was only discovered in '67, so before then, not only was DNA science not sufficiently advanced to create a synthetic viral genome/put together bits of an existing one, or tweak an existing virus...

There WAS no recombinant technology at the time!!!!!! So that is utter horseshit.

I agree that vaccination had something to do with the spread of HIV (although NOT with its actual beginning existance, as such, well, sort of, but not as a deliberate act)

Bushmeat.....small monkeys, gorilla, and our closest two living relatives, the chimp, and the bonobo.

Eaten for a long time, without the spread of virus. At least, in more than a very minor, and not particularly dangerous way.  SIV, or simian immunodeficiency virus isn't a particularly dangerous agent to humans although it IS capable of producing infection, this doesn't appear to cause the immune system failure, and persistent infection that HIV does. SIV appears to infect humans, have an acute infectious period, then decline, as the body attacks it.

There is a gene, I cannot name it because the CIA, who invented AIDS, will ki....I mean, because I was reading on endogenous retroviruses at the time (interestingly, its almost certain, that placental mammals would not be here at ALL if it were not for endogenous retroviruses) that appears to determine protection against HIV or SIV, is different in humans vs other primates. Severak mutants have been isolated, its protective against HIV, or SIV...but no mutant found or prepared has conferred immunity against both viruses-its one or the other, SIV or HIV.

If it wasn't for this gene, most likely SIV would be able to selectively target T lymphocytes in the same manner that HIV does.

As most people who know anything about HIV, or anything like that know, a part of the problem, ESPECIALLY with retroviruses, is the speed that they mutate at. Lacking some copy-check mechanisms that DNA viruses use (a retrovirus has an RNA genome, and uses a reverse transcriptase enzyme to make a DNA copy, rather than following the central dogma of genetics, that an organism replicates from DNA, to RNA, to protein end product, not counting of course, enzyme catalysed post-translational modification of proteins)

Lacking those copy-checking mechanisms that otherwise, in DNA viruses proofread the finished viral code, the retrovirus, sacrifices accuracy for vastly superior speed of replication. A retrovirus mutates very quickly, speedily inactivating vaccines, or treatments directed against viral infection.

SIV is only infectious in its acute stage, quickly being attacked and rendered noninfectious by the host human's immune defenses....

That isn't a very long window of infection, and its not a highly infectious virus, not in humans, so, think, for the past few hundred thousand years or so that truly human hominids existed, yes, people will have caught SIV infections many, many times, and probably not known it (well of course they wouldn't know what a virus even was for most of that time, but thats not what I meant)

They would have only limited chance to pass on the infection, either via sexual contact, maybe if one human bit another in a fight, or the chance occurence of the same cutting implement cutting the african with an SIV infection in the acute, infectious stage, cutting another african. So no real chance, even if (and its every bit possible it has, several times, or many times over, in fact, we will never know what could happen, but didn't) it transferred hosts, it never had the chance to do so en masse, as has been facillitated by decreased monogamous relationships, increased travel (isolated villages, and tribes, of course never have the chance to pass on even a highly infectious, only slowly, or nonlethal viral agent if they never SEE anybody else, or do so only rarely for trade purposes), and above all, aside from the unprotected sex and the poofters....INJECTIONS!

They didn't sterilize needles then, nor did they have disposable syringes, they used the same ones again, and again, and again, and again. Bingo. There, is your transmission opportunity for that rapidly mutating retrovirus, which in a handful of hosts so infected (there are different strains of HIV, most are found very, very seldom outside of africa), this virus, once SIV...now HIV...just got its plane ticket and its in flight meal.

What do you mean by that? immunity to what? in the context of this thread, that could mean one of quite a few different things.

Pre/post infection HIV, pre/post infection SIV, immunization against H/morphine and closely related opioids?

No, it isn't. These are not vaccines based on viruses, live or otherwise. They are taking a substance, and attatching it to an immunogenic substance (the keyhole limpet haemocyanin, in essence the crustacean and shellfish equivalent to haemoglobin, an oxygen carrying pigment)

The immune reaction to the haemocyanin starts, then the body recognizes the bit that got glued onto it, in essence, as a foreign invader, just as it would a bacteria, viral infection or peanut allergy and attacks.

There is a moratorium against germ line modifications amongst genetic engineers, at least at the moment. That is a dangerous path to follow and should not be done, at least until we know EXACTLY what we are doing with the tools we have.

Whilst this is very...iffy to say the least...it cannot cause the kids of those so treated, to become immune to the drugs targeted. No more so than a measles vaccination given to you, will prevent your kids from catching the disease. It is very unlikely, even to be permanent. Decade, maybe more if tetanus immunization is anything to go by.

I am probably your guy for questions of that nature, at least, on this forum. There are some VERY knowledgeable people on blacklight, who make me look like a dribbling idiot, where chemistry is concerned, and many with an excellent grasp of biology.

Although, it is true, that perhaps, there are few, who have a sound mastery of the number of subjects I consider specialities (mycology, cognitive neuroscience, (ethno)botany, neurology, general biology inc. genetics, and natural history)

GT ? *racks brains* I'm going to guess and say the golden teacher strain of P.cubensis?

Got some prints of P.cyanescens myself that I need to make good use of. (UK strain).

Good luck with whatever your brewing up there.