Author Topic: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?  (Read 205 times)

naxal

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Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« on: September 02, 2011, 12:00:03 PM »
Ok, so I am from New Zealand- there is no heroin imported into New Zealand (well, if there is, no one I know can get it) so people here make 'homebake heroin' by extracting the morphine from pills (Ms-Contin, Ms-Eslon & Sevredol are the most common types) and 'turning' (acetating) the morphine with 'double' (acetic anhydride) to form diacetylmorphine. No one makes heroin from codeine anymore, people stopped doing that in the early '90s, I have however successfully demethylated dihydrocodeine into dihydromorphine.  As such, my chemistry experience is almost entirely practical- I read as much as I can, but I have no real background in chemistry so I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the theoretical side of chemistry.

I have successfully acetated a number of other substances, other than morphine, such as hydromorphone, dihydromorphine and THC. I currently have in my possession an amount of O-Desmethyltramadol and I am wondering, can I acetate this like I would morphine? Would it make it more potent? And if this would not work at all, can you explain why? Doing so would help me fill in the holes in my knowledge- I am genuinely eager to learn about chemistry, I now regret sticking to a BA type subjects during my education.

Thanks in advance, I hope this thread doesn't cause too much facepalming...

Sedit

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2011, 06:07:08 PM »
I can not comment to much on the subject as tramadol has always been something I have wished to avoid due to its 5-HT re-uptake ability yet as I'm sure you are aware of the O-desmethyl does not have this same problem so I have always been curious as to its effects.

I would have to say give it a shot, it should increase the metabolic lifespan but I must warn due to Tramadols strange pharmacology I would be leary about increasing its potancy since even the Desmethyl metabolite still acts as an NRI and I would worry that if the potancy as a NRI is also increased then there would be the possibility of a hypertensive crisis.

Key here is to start slow and work up else you may run into serious medical trouble that no high would be worth.
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Enkidu

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2011, 04:11:13 AM »
If you acylate willy-nilly, you will have a diacylated product. IIRC, you'd only want to acylate the phenol, if that. An ester at the other position lowers activity. You could try dehydrating the tertiary alcohol to make the product more potent, but the safety profile is lower.

the ref is:

K. Flick, E. Frankus, E. Friderichs
"Studies on Chemical Structure and Analgetic Activity of Phenyl Substituted Aminomethylcyclohexanoles"
Arzneimittelforschung (Drug Research) 1978, 28, p.107-113

Tsathoggua

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 11:57:26 PM »
I have no idea which position and which ester, but on blacklight, there was a discussion around those sorts of tramadol analogs at one time, and one user had started testing an ester of tramadol, and I can't recall, seeing as I A-have a memory problem, and B-bloody hate tramadol so gave passing interest and little else to the details, but after an initial confirmation of an active opioid, very quickly, a followup post which had a warning, in very large point font, to the effect of 'don't even think about trying it'

Then more details, confirming several people all having had very severe toxic reactions from the tramadol acyl ester.

I wouldn't be inclined to test this.....tramadol is not worth that much anyway IMO.
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jon

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 10:44:47 PM »
if you dehydrate the tertiary alcohol with phosphoric acid it incorporates a double bond into the ring which sort of mimicks ring C on the morphine nucleus it has opiate analgesic qualitites it's about 1 & 1/3rd the potency of .
tramodol nothing to write home about.
there really is'nt much you can do to tramadol.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 01:58:04 AM by jon »

Dr.Methoxy

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 07:30:18 PM »
I have however successfully demethylated dihydrocodeine into dihydromorphine.

Please, could you post your notelab about that? It would be very helpful !

tryl

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 07:31:54 PM »
ok, i see i'm not the only junkie around, that's nice.
"In the words of Archimedes, give me a lever long enough and a place to rest it... or I shall kill one hostage every hour."

tryl

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 07:48:09 PM »
No one makes heroin from codeine anymore, people stopped doing that in the early '90s.

and why is that, btw?
"In the words of Archimedes, give me a lever long enough and a place to rest it... or I shall kill one hostage every hour."

smellslikeindole

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 01:39:19 AM »
With acetic anhydride with some pyridine in dichloromethane the phenolic OH would get acylated according to:

Enzymatic resolution of analgesics: ?-hydroxytramadol, ?-hydroxytramadol and O-desmethyltramadol
by  Hans-Joachim Gais
Tetrahedron: Asymmetry Volume 11, Issue 4, 10 March 2000, Pages 917–928

A solution of sodium hydroxide (40%, 2 ml) was added at room temperature to a suspension of rac-O-desmethyltramadol·HCl (15 mmol) in water (8 ml). The aqueous layer was extracted twice with CH2Cl2 (15 ml). The combined organic phases were dried (Na2SO4) and concentrated in vacuo to give rac-O-desmethyltramadol.
Alcohol rac-O-desmethyltramadol (8 mmol) was mixed at room temperature with a solution of acetic anhydride (9.6 mmol) and pyridine (0.8 mmol) in CH2Cl2 (30 ml). After stirring the mixture at room temperature until the completion of the acylation (48 h), it was poured into saturated aqueous NaHCO3 and stirred for 12 h. The organic layer was separated, dried (Na2SO4) and concentrated in vacuo to give O-desmethyltramadol acetate .

And for last, here is something interesting:

At the image uploaded there is a molecular shape similarity between morphine and tramadol. Just think about it(:

jon

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 01:59:06 AM »
you want o-desmethyl tramadol

Quote
from US pat 6562865
 "O-desmethyl tramadol is prepared by treating tramadol as a free base under O-demethylating reaction conditions, e.g., reacting it with a strong base such as NaOH or KOH, thiophenol and diethylene glycol (DEG) with heating to reflux (Wildes, et al., J. Org. Chem., 1971, 36, 721). The reaction takes about 1 h, followed by cooling and then quenching in water of the reaction mixture. The quenched mixture is acidified, extracted with an organic solvent such as ethyl ether, basified and then extracted with a halogenated organic solvent such as methylene chloride. The extract is then dried and the solvent evaporated to yield the O-desmethyl product, which may then be short-path distilled, converted to its corresponding salt, e.g., treated with an acidified (HCl/ethanol) solution, and recrystallized from an organic solvent mixture, e.g., ethanol/ethyl ether..."Snip
 

fresh1

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 06:56:22 AM »
Quote
    No one makes heroin from codeine anymore, people stopped doing that in the early '90s.


and why is that, btw?

 lack of access to pyridine I believe, plus the advent of much more available morphine... ;)

its not the most effective rxn either(50-60%yeilds) and considering both codeine AND heroin are 'prodrugs' which are demethylated rapidly in vivo, I wonder why folks bother...

6-MAM is what your after, a simple acylation of M with GAA and and a catalyst

6-MAM is 3-4 times M's potency.....ch ch check it out!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 08:17:20 AM by fresh1 »
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tryl

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Re: Acetating O-desmethyltramadol?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 01:50:46 PM »
pyridine supposedly yields some 30% product.

with BBr3 and other demethylating lewis acids it's above 80%.

also, i think, from there on, the dipropyl ester is the way to go for getting most of it.

"In the words of Archimedes, give me a lever long enough and a place to rest it... or I shall kill one hostage every hour."