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Author Topic: Fun with methylamine?  (Read 127 times)

reDEEMed

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Fun with methylamine?
« on: September 21, 2011, 12:37:54 AM »
What sorts of fun can someone have with methylamine? Is it worth while to synthesize and store an ounce or so of this in one's lab, or is the risk of having it not worth the benefits? I know if you need it you need it, but what if you don't really need it, like more or less just working towards a more complete inventory of chemicals to have at one's disposal, is it worth the trouble? It seems like a boring little N donor to me and not much more. Why is it so heavily regulated?
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
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RoidRage

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 01:52:53 AM »
Reductive amination of phenylacetones with methylamine yields the corresponding N-Methylamphetamines ;)

reDEEMed

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 01:56:30 AM »
So, am I correct to assume that it's only real use is in amination?
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
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RoidRage

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 02:05:04 AM »
Mostly , as far as I know

lugh

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 02:41:22 AM »
Methylamine is watched because of it's use in reductive alkylation/amination  ;)  It's also used as a catalyst for condensations, and in the synthesis of analgesics, local anesthetics and antihistamines  :P  It's also used in the petroleum industry and for making explosives  :-X  There's a lot of things that can be done with it if one is an organic chemist  8)
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reDEEMed

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 06:44:40 AM »
Condensations huh....interesting, this could be of use in say, oximation then, no? I was just getting ready to do a small experiment but backed out because I wasn't willing to gamble with my limited resources. I was going to attempt to make formaldoxime. All of the documentation I have found so far has been about the trimer, though. I'm not sure if that matters to me or not. My plan was to use hydroxylamine to get formaldoxime then Beckmann that to get formamide. I don't know if it'll work or if it's really gonna be that simple, I'm just trying it because there was no good reason not to, until now. I know this reaction scheme will work on some aldehydes, so I thought maybe it would work on this one. Plus,  I googled it and formamide is a real word and somebody else has actually made the shit before lol.

Turns out it's a kinda cool solvent that doesn't break down from being heated, so it's 100% recyclable, if you can recover it you can reuse it. Anyway, that really made seeing if I could make it a no-brainer.  I thought 50gms of that liquid 37% stuff would be a nice small investment that I wouldn't miss. This whole thing reminds me that I have a stack of questions regarding the mechanism of oximation, but anyway. I figured that 50gms of a 37% solution would give me .616mol of formaldehyde. To give me atleast a 1:1 ratio I would need right at 43gms of hydroxylamine. 43gms, HA! Fuck that. I'm curious and all, but not that curious.

Meh, I'm not sure how methylamine would help anyway, I would still need to have that 1:1 ratio minimum anyway, wouldn't I? Those nice shiny brand new chunks being added to all those aldehyde molecules has to come from somewhere. I could be way off, though. This would not surprise me in the least.
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
— Terence McKenna

reDEEMed

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 02:02:00 PM »
That's why I asked. Just so you know, I don't even a microgram of the shit. And as far as I know when your lab gets searched by the cops they pretty much turn everything into a precursor. I don't see them saying 'oh well, no methylamine here, he's good let's go'. Lol@good move, please reread thread.
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
— Terence McKenna

reDEEMed

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 05:08:41 PM »
I had a feeling that was the case, but I couldn't say for sure that there was not some other common uses. Knowing nothing about it and just looking at it and trying to imagine what it would be good for, amination is all I see and I can't say I get why someone would pick methylamine over anything else.

That reminds me of something I wonder a lot. Why don't you see people use ammonia more when they are looking to throw a N up in something? Is it too basic? Seems to me that it would be ultimate N donor.
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
— Terence McKenna

reDEEMed

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 08:20:56 PM »
If I were gonna try to synth it, I would go the acetamide/Hofmann route since I have a huge bottle of acetamide and I've ran the Hofmann a time or two ;D It would be a bit different than the way I'm used to doing it, which is one reason why I wanted to do it. It would give more a more diverse experience with that reaction. From what I've read the hardest part of that route is recovery of your product. Apparently it's an absolute bitch to isolate your amine.
"Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable."
— Terence McKenna

beanhead

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 02:44:17 PM »
Quote from: RoidRage on September 21, 2011, 01:52:53 AM
Reductive amination of phenylacetones with methylamine yields the corresponding N-Methylamphetamines ;)

Yummy fish and ketone smells in the morning.

Hexamine (esbit) + hcl + methanol is another easy to go route.

You could go for adrenalin, just for novel purpose  ;)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 02:45:54 PM by beanhead »

RoidRage

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Re: Fun with methylamine?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2011, 02:54:53 AM »
Quote from: beanhead on September 22, 2011, 02:44:17 PM

Yummy fish and ketone smells in the morning.

Hahaha ;) :D
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