I just kept a word document on my desktop where I would brainstorm ideas.
DopeBee
- Pupae


- Posts: 52
Vesp
- Administrator
- Foundress Queen





- Posts: 3,130
Very nice. 
We've got a lot of good ideas, the tricky party is to just bring it all together into one meaningful, high impact and short well written essay. Something I struggle at.
Later this week I will try to combine both articles and see where i can get with it. But again, anyone can edit such manifesto -- with that piratepad link I posted earlier.

We've got a lot of good ideas, the tricky party is to just bring it all together into one meaningful, high impact and short well written essay. Something I struggle at.
Later this week I will try to combine both articles and see where i can get with it. But again, anyone can edit such manifesto -- with that piratepad link I posted earlier.
myCH3
- Pupae


- Posts: 77
If the way I see it our goal is/ should be to end the drug war. I feel we are neglecting how large the rc scene is growing and how dangerous and unregulated. Its definitely not gonna run out of different chemicals to use, especially if shulgin planted enough seeds in enough people we'll see some exponential growth of new novel structures. We could mention all the dangerous of the unregulated market and in parallel give examples of ideal paradise engineering potential that legitimate research could provide if legal. How about some of maps studies of how mdma is actually helping veterans with ptsd and a close friend who was in Afghanistan for two tours who told me if that before he took doc he was planning on killing himself. The more stories especially if we can make people empathize the better.
Vesp
- Administrator
- Foundress Queen





- Posts: 3,130
Yeah - there really is a lot of things we can do with this... perhaps we might want to work on a single short manifesto - 2-3 pages tops, and then have a sort of ... additional essays, or volumes... added later.
I like that idea a lot but I fear personal experiences/stories, etc would not fit well and it would be hard to give other good, short, and convincing examples.
Certain the RC scene should be mentioned, that is a very good point. We need to show that it is a *growing* problem.. not just simply an existing problem... If the war on drugs continues certainly more people will die yearly from the new but legal drugs being created.
I like that idea a lot but I fear personal experiences/stories, etc would not fit well and it would be hard to give other good, short, and convincing examples.
Certain the RC scene should be mentioned, that is a very good point. We need to show that it is a *growing* problem.. not just simply an existing problem... If the war on drugs continues certainly more people will die yearly from the new but legal drugs being created.
embezzler
- Subordinate Wasp



- Posts: 228
I took a stab at an opening paragraph or two... though it may not bee to everyones liking.
When there is only one army there can never be a victory - only loss. That is why the WOD can never be won.
This is the exact exercise at which Unobtanium would have excelled. I remember the revised home page for the hive when the second dateline episode was rumoured... now that was a manifesto
When there is only one army there can never be a victory - only loss. That is why the WOD can never be won.
This is the exact exercise at which Unobtanium would have excelled. I remember the revised home page for the hive when the second dateline episode was rumoured... now that was a manifesto
fresh1
- conspirator
- Dominant Queen




- Posts: 339
yeah I agree with vesp, nice stuff DB
Vesp
- Administrator
- Foundress Queen





- Posts: 3,130
Nice take on things embezzler!
You made some awesome points - and I love how it brings the common person to understand drugs - the point about how everyone is on caffeine but yet if it were discovered today, it would be outlawed is excellent.
... Can you find that stuff on the way back machine? What is the URL and year/date when it was up?
Any chance we could get Unobtanium involved in this? (if he is.. contactable? and still around?)
Right now should just be a brain storming session -- we can worry about collecting the best ideas later on and merging them into one short but excellent essay later on that should hopefully, if properly launched... have a serious punch to the politics around the war on drugs. I have kind of a plan for this manifesto.. but I'll share that sort of stuff later on.
You made some awesome points - and I love how it brings the common person to understand drugs - the point about how everyone is on caffeine but yet if it were discovered today, it would be outlawed is excellent.
This is the exact exercise at which Unobtanium would have excelled. I remember the revised home page for the hive when the second dateline episode was rumoured... now that was a manifesto
... Can you find that stuff on the way back machine? What is the URL and year/date when it was up?
Any chance we could get Unobtanium involved in this? (if he is.. contactable? and still around?)
Right now should just be a brain storming session -- we can worry about collecting the best ideas later on and merging them into one short but excellent essay later on that should hopefully, if properly launched... have a serious punch to the politics around the war on drugs. I have kind of a plan for this manifesto.. but I'll share that sort of stuff later on.

fresh1
- conspirator
- Dominant Queen




- Posts: 339
hey vesp how about posting updates of the modified manifesto here each time it gets a significant upgrade worthy of note, like if/when someone does a waggledance about it
like you have just done a waggledance in the Stains direction, which I'm sure is worthy of a few karmakudos, which I'd happily provide after a satisfying read 
It would help to stimulate those too lazy to ch ch check it out now, with their funk soul brothers...and I have to turn off noscript to see it =arsepain delays and arsepain
like you have just done a waggledance in the Stains direction, which I'm sure is worthy of a few karmakudos, which I'd happily provide after a satisfying read 
It would help to stimulate those too lazy to ch ch check it out now, with their funk soul brothers...and I have to turn off noscript to see it =arsepain delays and arsepain

Vesp
- Administrator
- Foundress Queen





- Posts: 3,130
Good Suggestion Fresh! Here... I will post the whole scribbly thing
Here is a post of it, and an attached document... the document has color coding which makes it easier to understand who has edited different things and so on.... Or you can just view http://piratenpad.de/p/Vesp's_Manifesto which gives color coding to the different people who have edited it.
Feel free to add your own... download and edit the document, upload it again, etc.. etc..
remember right now is our brain storming session right now.
The added quotes at the bottom might work as an inspirational tool to get you to write about the war on drugs or at least get fired up over it.
I love the recent attention this has gotten! A great example of why it is good to revive dead threads.
Here is a post of it, and an attached document... the document has color coding which makes it easier to understand who has edited different things and so on.... Or you can just view http://piratenpad.de/p/Vesp's_Manifesto which gives color coding to the different people who have edited it.
Feel free to add your own... download and edit the document, upload it again, etc.. etc..
remember right now is our brain storming session right now.

The added quotes at the bottom might work as an inspirational tool to get you to write about the war on drugs or at least get fired up over it.
Quote
***This is just an expirement, if you don't like it let me know why -- I just want to see where this goes and how it turns out... Crowd sourcing for writing an article just seems interesting to begin with...
It is proving to me, for me, exceptionally difficult to combine the input of others in this Manifesto with mine, so below I have posted theirs as well -- If anyone would like to add or try to combine/blend the ideas together in one coherent manifesto.. the attempt would be welcomed greatly and lilkely a good building block for this project to continue....
Purpose & Goal:
1. Make short (1-2 page statment) about why the war on drugs has failed, and should be changed/made sensible, etc
2. Make inspirational to people who appeal to Anonymous/Lulsec styled protest & movements, are idealistic & likely younger - computer savvy, science savvy, smart, hactivists especially.... etc...
3. Backup all claims with references in brackets.
4. Word it elegantly, eloquently, with proper grammar, spelling, puncuation, etc..
5. Have it flow and be well organized..
6.?
Should have links to all the anti-drug war groups: NORML, LEAP, SSDP, etc...
Also contact and message information for congress, etc...(just at the bottom, by the quotes if those are added)
~~~~It needs to be close to as inspiring as the most inspiratinonal thing you can imagine?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo&feature=related
Vesp's Manifesto
You are a drug taker. Make no mistake. Right now it is a certainty that your brain and body are awash with mind altering substances. Sugar, for one, the high fructose corn syrup that is added to the food you eat is a potent mind altering drug (if you dont believe me try and cut it from your diet and you will feel what it is like to suffer withdrawal symptoms.) More obviously , and less harmful, is caffeine which wakes you up and invigorates the mind and most people cannot start the day without it. We can accept these as almost invisible inclusions into modern life, so commonplace that they are no longer regarded, their damage accepted unquestioned and their availability defended. Were either of these "discovered" today they would be prohibited under draconian legislation envisaged by the ignorant as the latest battleground against the individual and the terminus - win or lose- of the pharmacratic inquisition.
The directed attempts at eradication of mind altering substances has been chronicled through the centuries from the witch trials in medievel Europe to the prohibition of the genus cannabis by the British Empire in its racial oppression of the black inner city dwellers. From the pages of history we have torn many of the ancient and beautiful customs of peoples throught the globe and removed the sacraments and shamanic practices that bound the embrionic human culture and nourished its growth. The opium of the orient, the psylocybin mushrooms of the Germanic and Celtic cultures of Central Europe, the Iboga rituals of the tribes of Africa to the nicotinic smoke of the American Natives before their decimation at the hands of the "civilised" world. Drug use has been with us since before we could write, before the Pharoes legions capped the pyramids at Giza and before the birth of the Christ in the Middle East. Before the rise of Christianity and Islam and long before the "discovery" of the New World the only thing that ancient man has in common is drug use. Only now have we been led to fight a war against an inanimate object.. to fight against the plants grown in the earth and the wonderous compounds that they yielded and the consequences have been grave.
Taking the United States:
While the United States contains only 5% of the world’s population, it contains 25% of the world’s prison population. This is partly because of drug laws that arbitrarily classify people as criminals for using, buying, selling, or possessing plants or plant-derived products. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate]
Someting about drug laws being ambigious.
If taken strictly, many intentionally ambiguous laws would greatly impede practically all business; in practice, they are only enforced erratically. The specter of having such laws suddenly brought down upon a business or individual provides incentive to stay in the good graces of political officials, and that is usually accomplished by influence peddling, patronage, or bribery.
Proponents of the failed war on drugs claim they’re saving children, protecting us from ourselves, or sending some kind of message about drug use.
Like tobacco 400 years ago, and like alcohol nearly a century ago - their regulation and then deregulation has never been because of reason, logic, saftey, health issues or a general respect for individual freedom; but instead from the governments incompetence's to regulate such substances that the laws are repealed.
The reason the other minor drugs are illegal is not because of any excessive and inherent dangerous side effects, but because fewer people use them, and while equally uncontrollable their impact on society is significantly smaller.
If we want change, we need to make these smaller drugs have a much larger impact on society; we need more users, more dealers, distributors, more manufacturers, and more of the pure substances at much lower prices, but most importantly we need to keep talking. We need to tell everyone how to make drugs, how to safely and anonymously buy and sell them online, in person, how to acquire the needed equipment, and how to manufacture their own precursors from over the counter chemicals or chemicals derived from natural and unregulatable resources.
Not only will this help end the war on drugs, but it will also lower the violence on the Mexican border.
Our army and the drug market will never lose the war! It has been gaining grounds since the first day of any prohibition. The government may choose to regulate more at the burden of every business and individual, and society may loose their freedoms at the cost of protection from a false danger - but this will lead to an ever more bloated inefficient and wasteful government, and an ever larger percent of the population who disrespects the tyrannical drug laws.
We need to have a paradigm shift where the supply side of drugs breaks through the dogmatic wall built by oppressive forces and apathetic minds, and this force needs to flow onto the streets and into the parks to inspire liberty, freedom of expression, choice, and the right to treat ones own body the way in which they choose.
This is a call to arms - make drugs! grow drugs! sell drugs! use drugs!
Sell them online, sell them in person, sell them to dealers, and to users. Sell items used to make them, to consume them, and to conceal them!
Share all you know about drugs! how to make them, how to take them, how to distribute, to hide,
Additionally, we need to be more open to the drug culture. We need to help, even more so than we do now, individuals to try drugs.
We need to show ou
This all sounds a bit too angry Yeah, I agree... the call to arms section? How else would one encouragingly get people involved without it sounding angry? I want to set a bush fire in peoples minds and make them activsts -- not just simply agree that drugs should be legal and then have them carry on with their daily lives.
We are The Vespiary; Social and aggressive wasps that have nested on an idea that we as individuals, not governments, have the right to consume or not to consume substances as we wish. we value liberty.
You may stop an individual, but you can't stop us all. You can't stop an idea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Additional Input~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We need to find a way to merge some of the good ideas with the above article.
Hackers and chemists are similar in that they both take pleasure in discovering, exploring and creating. It is natural for us to be drawn to the frontiers of technology and science, rather than fear them. It is natural for us to question authority, rather than follow orders blindly. And because of this we are often subjected to the punishments of whatever egotistic control-freaks happen to be in power our activism against unjust laws.
It is natural for those of us with curious minds to test the limits of our own consciousnesses. Instead of harboring a safe and open environment in which to test and develop the effects of mind-altering substances, governments worldwide have joined together to oppress everyone's right to their own consciousness.
People who seek domination and control will stop at nothing in order to fulfill their desire for power over others. Their method to gain control of the masses is the manipulation of the human brain's reward and fear centers. They knew how empowering mind-altering substances could be and so they declared a War On Drugs. They also know how empowering the internet is, and so what do you think their next step will be? My guess is they will not openly declare this war, but they will use the usual fear tactics and propaganda in order to enact more and more controls and laws pertaining to the internet. It would be wise for hackers and chemists alike to join together in an alliance, in the fight for the freedom and sovereignty of our own bodies, minds and destinies. This is good, but begins to exceed the scope of the article - possibly? I like the idea of trying to mend hackers with chemists as hackers are, to some (Most?) people, looked in a much more positive way due to all of the anonymous activism. We need to be seen as activsts and not a "spooky drug dealer with meth and knifes" -- but as passionate, educated, curious college students who care about freedom/individual liberty and are curious of human consquecious. A focus should be psychedelics since most people think "The Beatles! Lucy in the sky!" as opposed to another drug such as meth - which makes them think of "The faces of meth"
If we can mix SOPA/Anonymous/Occupy with this, much as you did in the above.. it would be great - but the focus needs to be on drug legalization only, and not really... internet freedom.
Also most drugs were outlawed because of racism - as a means to control minorities (Opium = Chinese, MJ = Mexicans, Cocaine = Africans, LSD/etc = a way to divide the hippie movement)
Each generation needs to learn to fight their government's attempts to oppress, to control and to manipulate. Governments have grown so large and powerful and overbearing and at the same time western culture is becoming more timid and submissive. We should be willing to give our lives to fight the corruption that grows naturally in governments, because if one is not willing to fight for their own freedom there will certainly be people in government willing to fight to take that freedom away at the benefit of themselves.
I don't like the idea of giving up lives/freedom to promote liberty - it is a bit of a paradox and fringes on being... perhaps.... excessivly idealistic? I am unsure, I am often unkined to true altruism like that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If taken strictly, many intentionally ambiguous laws would greatly impede practically all business; in practice, they are only enforced erratically. The specter of having such laws suddenly brought down upon a business or individual provides incentive to stay in the good graces of political officials, and that is usually accomplished by influence peddling, patronage, or bribery.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Inspirational Quotes~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all. – Jacob Hornberger (1995)
When the Eighteenth Amendment was passed I earnestly hoped- with a host of advocates of temperance-that it would be generally supported by public opinion and thus the day be hastened when the value to society of men with minds and bodies free from the undermining effects of alcohol would be generally realized. That this has not been the result, but rather that drinking has generally increased; that the speakeasy has replaced the saloon, not only unit for unit, but probably two-fold if not three-fold; that a vast array of lawbreakers has been recruited and financed on a colossal scale; that many of our best citizens, piqued at what they regarded as an infringement of their private rights, have openly and unabashedly disregarded the Eighteenth Amendment; that as an inevitable result respect for all law has been greatly lessened; that crime has increased to an unprecedented degree-I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe. --- John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
Quotes
"In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
Martin Luther King Jr
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln
Drug prohibition has caused gang warfare and other violent crimes by raising the prices of drugs so much that vicious criminals enter the market to make astronomical profits, and addicts rob and steal to get money to pay the inflated prices for their drugs.
Michael Badnarik
“...And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” - Thomas Jefferson
It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men. – Samuel Adams
A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circlue of our felicities. – Thomas Jefferson
To deprive a man of his natural liberty and to deny to him the ordinary amenities of life is worse then starving the body; it is starvation of the soul, the dweller in the body. – Mohandas Gandhi
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. – Thomas Jefferson
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. – Thomas Jefferson
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin
It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it. – George Washington
If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all. – Jacob Hornberger (1995)
The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. – John Hay (1872)
It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others, and the moment governmental prohibitions extend beyond this line they are in danger of defeating the very ends they are intended to serve. – Henry George
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws. – Ayn Rand
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. – Thomas Jefferson (1781)
The government was set to protect man from criminals – and the Constitution was written to protect man from the government. – Ayn Rand
I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men's rights. – Abraham Lincoln
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. – Voltaire
Every friend of freedom must be as revolted as I am by the prospect of turning the United States into an armed camp, by the vision of jails filled with casual drug users and of an army of enforcers empowered to invade the liberty of citizens on slight evidence. – Milton Friedman, Nobel Prize-winning economist
Alcohol didn't cause the high crime rates of the '20s and '30s, Prohibition did. And drugs do not cause today's alarming crime rates, but drug prohibition does. – US District Judge James C. Paine, addressing the Federal Bar Association in Miami, November, 1991
I'm in favor of legalizing drugs. According to my value system, if people want to kill themselves, they have every right to do so. Most of the harm that comes from drugs is because they are illegal. – Milton Friedman
Opium and morphine are certainly dangerous, habit-forming drugs. But once the principle is admitted that it is the duty of the government to protect the individual against his own foolishness, no serious objections can be advanced against further encroachments … Is not the harm a man can inflict on his mind and soul even more disastrous than any bodily evils.? Why not prevent him from reading bad books and bad plays, from looking at bad paintings and statues and from hearing bad music? The mischief done by bad ideologies, surely, is much more pernicious both for the individual and for the whole society, than that done by narcotic drugs. – Von Mises, Human Action
The War on Drugs is a price support system for terrorists and drug pushers. It turns ordinary, cheap plants like marijuana and poppies into fantastically lucrative black market products. Without the War on Drugs, the financial engine that fuels terrorist organizations would sputter to a halt. – Ron Crickenberger, Libertarian Party Political Director 2/4/02
If the government can't keep drugs away from inmates who are locked in steel cages, surrounded by barbed wire, watched by armed guards, drug-tested, strip-searched, X-rayed, and videotaped – how can it possibly stop the flow of drugs to an entire nation? – Ron Crickenberger
I love the recent attention this has gotten! A great example of why it is good to revive dead threads.

Vesp
- Administrator
- Foundress Queen





- Posts: 3,130
The strongest argument against drug laws - and one that the police and all
decent people should appreciate - is that disrespect for the drug laws
may cause disrespect for the Law in general. In other words, we all
know good people who have tried pot. When good people who are educated
and responsible are harassed by law enforcement for pot, people start
to resent police offers. Additionally, other laws are challenged to
avoid the persecution. The court's time is wasted prosecuting
productive members of society, and voters, afraid that they or their
children might face a similar experience, vote for prosecutors who
will do the least for their own safety.
and that has extra force because to argue against it requires you to
say that unpopular laws should still be enforced ... which means laws
are not for the people or by the people .. people have to assent to
the laws under which they're governed
decent people should appreciate - is that disrespect for the drug laws
may cause disrespect for the Law in general. In other words, we all
know good people who have tried pot. When good people who are educated
and responsible are harassed by law enforcement for pot, people start
to resent police offers. Additionally, other laws are challenged to
avoid the persecution. The court's time is wasted prosecuting
productive members of society, and voters, afraid that they or their
children might face a similar experience, vote for prosecutors who
will do the least for their own safety.
and that has extra force because to argue against it requires you to
say that unpopular laws should still be enforced ... which means laws
are not for the people or by the people .. people have to assent to
the laws under which they're governed
fresh1
- conspirator
- Dominant Queen




- Posts: 339
Quote
A great example of why it is good to revive dead threads
ya know, I dont post in many forums...but IMO all topics (except ones in vacuos posts) should be open to resurrection without fear
IMO its certainly better than starting new ones about the same subject which only dilutes and scatters the subject
I've recently been thinking that maybe the 'best' way is to fight the mis/disinfiromation of TPTB rather than try to promote 'drug users' pov...
There certainly is enough data to show that Rx'd drugs cause FAR MORE problems than RC's

Quote
A new study from the Institute for Safe Medication Practices published in the journal PloS One and based on data from the FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System has identified 31 drugs that are disproportionately linked with reports of violent behavior towards others. (More on Time.com: New Hope For An Anti-Cocaine Vaccine)
Please note that this does not necessarily mean that these drugs cause violent behavior. For example, in the case of opioid pain medications like Oxycontin, people with a prior history of violent behavior may seek drugs in order to sustain an addiction, which they support via predatory crime. In the case of antipsychotics, the drugs may be given in an attempt to reduce violence by people suffering from schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders — so the drugs here might not be causing violence, but could be linked with it because they’re used to try to stop it.
Nonetheless, when one particular drug in a class of nonaddictive drugs used to treat the same problem stands out, that suggests caution: unless the drug is being used to treat radically different groups of people, that drug may actually be the problem. Researchers calculated a ratio of risk for each drug compared to the others in the database, adjusting for various relevant factors that could create misleading comparisons. Here are the top ten offenders:
10. Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq) An antidepressant which affects both serotonin and noradrenaline, this drug is 7.9 times more likely to be associated with violence than other drugs.
9. Venlafaxine (Effexor) A drug related to Pristiq in the same class of antidepressants, both are also used to treat anxiety disorders. Effexor is 8.3 times more likely than other drugs to be related to violent behavior. (More on Time.com: Adderall May Not Make You Smarter, But It Makes You Think You Are)
8. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) An antidepressant that affects serotonin (SSRI), Luvox is 8.4 times more likely than other medications to be linked with violence
7. Triazolam (Halcion) A benzodiazepine which can be addictive, used to treat insomnia. Halcion is 8.7 times more likely to be linked with violence than other drugs, according to the study.
6) Atomoxetine (Strattera) Used to treat attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), Strattera affects the neurotransmitter noradrenaline and is 9 times more likely to be linked with violence compared to the average medication.
5) Mefoquine (Lariam) A treatment for malaria, Lariam has long been linked with reports of bizarre behavior. It is 9.5 times more likely to be linked with violence than other drugs.
4) Amphetamines: (Various) Amphetamines are used to treat ADHD and affect the brain’s dopamine and noradrenaline systems. They are 9.6 times more likely to be linked to violence, compared to other drugs.
3) Paroxetine (Paxil) An SSRI antidepressant, Paxil is also linked with more severe withdrawal symptoms and a greater risk of birth defects compared to other medications in that class. It is 10.3 times more likely to be linked with violence compared to other drugs. (More on Time.com: Healthland’s Guide to Life 2011)
2) Fluoxetine (Prozac) The first well-known SSRI antidepressant, Prozac is 10.9 times more likely to be linked with violence in comparison with other medications.
1) Varenicline (Chantix) The anti-smoking medication Chantix affects the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor, which helps reduce craving for smoking. Unfortunately, it’s 18 times more likely to be linked with violence compared to other drugs — by comparison, that number for Xyban is 3.9 and just 1.9 for nicotine replacement. Because Chantix is slightly superior in terms of quit rates in comparison to other drugs, it shouldn’t necessarily be ruled out as an option for those trying to quit, however
It really gets to me how most folks put Drs on pedestals when they dont deserve it....sure, once upon a time drs were probably some of THE most priveledged (to be able to have the time and $'s to study it) and subsequently knowledgeable peeps around, but not now!
In the past 50 years there HAS been enough data to show that a) regardless of their illegality MANY people STILL want to and DO take various drugs recreationally and b) there will ALWAYS be a part of humanity which wants to.
Here is one of the few (IMO) well balanced povs on the current world drug situation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/05/legalisation-drugs-antonio-maria-costa
Currently several countries have virtually legalised most RC's
Quote
Personal possession of any drug—even the hardest—is not a crime in Spain, Portugal, Italy, the Czech Republic or the Baltic states. Some German states and Swiss cantons take the same line. Portugal is especially liberal: rather than fining users or punishing them in other ways (such as removing their driving licences), it usually just impounds their stash and sends them on a course of treatment and dissuasion.
Experiments like these seem to have been noted in the White House. Barack Obama’s drug tsar, Gil Kerlikowske, has been at pains to distance himself from talk of legalisation of cannabis, or any other drug. (Legalising pot is a “non-starter”, he said on October 23rd.) But it is clear that the election of Mr Obama, who in the past has called the war on drugs an “utter failure”, has affected policy both in the United States and elsewhere in the Americas.
Under the Bush administration, cannabis dispensaries were shut down, regardless of the laws of the state in which they operated. The new political climate in Washington, DC, has made it easier for Canada to take a more liberal line on cannabis. In British Columbia, harder drugs are treated in innovative ways too: heroin addicts can get their doses on prescription, and take them in supervised conditions.
Farther south, the results of Mr Obama’s election seem dramatic. In August, Mexico decriminalised the possession of small amounts of any drug—from cannabis to crack—in a bid to free its federal agents to focus on bringing traffickers to justice. It had tried to do so in 2006, but howls of protest from the Bush administration halted the move at the eleventh hour. In August, Argentina’s supreme court said it was unconstitutional to prosecute people for drug possession. The following month, Colombia’s supreme court issued a similar ruling. Now, Brazil and Ecuador are said to be mulling decriminalisation
and there is always the violence associated with highly profitable crime..
It remains to be seen whether these moves will help stem the bloodshed that has engulfed the region. In Ciudad Juárez, a Mexican border town ravaged by trafficking wars, some 2,000 people have been murdered this year, making it one of the riskiest places on earth.
Decriminalising personal possession, though helpful in other ways, won’t do much to tackle organised crime, which retains its grip on the market. But America’s tentative moves in the direction of legalising the supply of drugs, rather than just going easy on users, could start to change things. Sanho Tree, of the Institute for Policy Studies, an American think-tank, notes that Mexico’s cartels are thought to get about 70% of their income from sending marijuana north. The higher the legal production, the harder that will be.
If California’s hippies long for legalisation, the bullet-weary citizens of Mexico’s poorest barrios are even keener.

http://www.economist.com/node/14845095
have a look at this to see the arguments AGAINST decriminalisation/legalisation
Quote
Discussion
I. Their Argument
Proponents of legalization suggest that the experiences of countries such as Great Britain, the Netherlands, and Switzerland prove the efficacy of legalizing or decriminalizing various types of illegal drugs such as cocaine, heroin, and marijuana. They maintain that because such drugs are legal, these countries have fewer addicts and less drug-related crime.
II. Our Argument
The statements of the legalizers here are empirically untrue. As we discuss each country in turn, it will be shown that legalization did not work in any of them.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths4.htm
oh my heads hurts...I think I need some drugs

fresh1
- conspirator
- Dominant Queen




- Posts: 339
Here's some more of what we're up against 
yep JUST coz they took drugz they did crime
fuckin hell! IF it wasnt "criminal" to be affected by these things, when someone does 'lose it' there would be more chance they would be taken to a hospital, rather than a jail.
I had an unexpected detox last year which made f1 a bit loopy...didnt commit any crime though...in fact never have, aside from buy/sell/make drugz
check out this dude for a fear monger dr fuckin bob!...http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20010122/msgs/52807.html
fresh never bothered to read this SHIT and cannot believe the amount of effort put into demonizing drug use
constant references are made by these 'advocates', to fifty years ago, and that 'many more' people use drugs today BUT nothing is said about increases in populations, otherwise the 'average person' probably wouldnt even consider this
(and the average person is an idiot IMO) and easily conned!
I think we're gonna need more than a manifesto!

Quote
Dr. Herbert Kleber, a professor of psychiatry at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, and one of the nation's leading authorities on addiction, stated in a 1994 article in the New England Journal of Medicine that clinical data support the premise that drug use would increase with legalization. He said:
"There are over 50 million nicotine addicts, 18 million alcoholics or problem drinkers, and fewer than 2 million cocaine addicts in the United States. Cocaine is a much more addictive drug than alcohol. If cocaine were legally available, as alcohol and nicotine are now, the number of cocaine abusers would probably rise to a point somewhere between the number of users of the other two agents, perhaps 20 to 25 million...the number of compulsive users might be nine times higher than the current number. When drugs have been widely available -- as...cocaine was at the turn of the century -- both use and addiction have risen."
I can't imagine the impact on this society if that many people were abusers of cocaine. From what we know about the connection between drugs and crime, America would certainly have to devote an enormous amount of its financial resources to law enforcement.
Legalization would contribute to a rise in crime.
The second outcome of legalization would be more crime, especially more violent crime. There's a close relationship between drugs and crime. This relationship is borne out by the statistics. Every year, the Justice Department compiles a survey of people arrested in a number of American cities to determine how many of them tested positive for drugs at the time of their arrest. In 1998, the survey found, for example, that 74 percent of those arrested in Atlanta for a violent crime tested positive for drugs. In Miami, 49 percent; in Oklahoma City, 60 percent.
There's a misconception that most drug-related crimes involve people who are looking for money to buy drugs. The fact is that the most drug-related crimes are committed by people whose brains have been messed up with mood-altering drugs. A 1994 study by the Bureau of Justice Statistics compared Federal and State prison inmates in 1991. It found, for example, that 18 percent of the Federal inmates had committed homicide under the influence of drugs, whereas 2.7 percent committed homicide to get the money to buy drugs. The same disparities showed up for State inmates: almost 28 percent committed homicide under the influence versus 5.3 percent to get money to buy drugs
yep JUST coz they took drugz they did crime
fuckin hell! IF it wasnt "criminal" to be affected by these things, when someone does 'lose it' there would be more chance they would be taken to a hospital, rather than a jail.I had an unexpected detox last year which made f1 a bit loopy...didnt commit any crime though...in fact never have, aside from buy/sell/make drugz

check out this dude for a fear monger dr fuckin bob!...http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/20010122/msgs/52807.html
Quote
Anyone who has ever worked undercover in drug enforcement has witnessed young children, 12- and 14-year old girls, putting needles into their arms, shooting up heroin or speed. To feed their habit, the kids start stealing from their parents and their brothers and sisters, stealing and pawning the watch that's been handed down from their grandmother to buy a bag of dope. Drug addiction is a family affair. It's a tragedy for everyone involved. And it wouldn't matter a bit to these families if the drugs were legal. The human misery would be the same. There would just be more of it.
Legalization would present a law enforcement nightmare
fresh never bothered to read this SHIT and cannot believe the amount of effort put into demonizing drug use
constant references are made by these 'advocates', to fifty years ago, and that 'many more' people use drugs today BUT nothing is said about increases in populations, otherwise the 'average person' probably wouldnt even consider this
(and the average person is an idiot IMO) and easily conned!I think we're gonna need more than a manifesto!
fresh1
- conspirator
- Dominant Queen




- Posts: 339
Maybe this manifesto should concentrate on the positive things about recreational and illicit drugs in general and downplay the few 'negatives' which have been hyped up to incredible levels by the media.
I came across the most extraordinary list of the therapeutic benefits of marijuana which kinda says more than enough about the benefits of the drug
"if the truth wont do then something is wrong"
Granny StormCrow's List http://boards.cannabis.com/medicinal-cannabis-health/161539-granny-storm-crows-list.html
I came across the most extraordinary list of the therapeutic benefits of marijuana which kinda says more than enough about the benefits of the drug
"if the truth wont do then something is wrong"

Granny StormCrow's List http://boards.cannabis.com/medicinal-cannabis-health/161539-granny-storm-crows-list.html

?