Author Topic: LSM?  (Read 471 times)

tregar

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2012, 07:47:43 PM »
Thanks MyCH3 & Tsathoggue for the acetyl & 4-aco-dmt comments...very interesting. finally have some, so will get to try in 2 weeks, I will eventually combine a very low dose with about 300mg of mescaline,have a feeling this might even be better than mescaline + 25i-nbome (though this is hard to beat). I'm so glad i picked up a few kg of trichocereus skins many years ago, the mescaline extracted is very good stuff, just had a trip on it this last weekend, so beautiful. It combines so well with other psychedelics, i think if combined with 4-aco-dmt, it will be a very spiritual & highly visual trip that is more "awake" than just 4-aco-dmt by itself, bet the combo is very similar to acid effects wise. Even though acid is an ergoline, I tend to see it as a combination PEA & tryptamine, that's why I feel mescaline (pea) + tryptamine (4-aco-dmt) would be really unique....and alot like acid. I saw a recent combination report at erowid that combined 4-aco-dmt with 25i-nbome, bet that is a decent combo too. psoodonym had said "i find 4-AcO significantly more euphoric and MDMA-like, but less manic than 4-ho-dmt (psilocyn)."

From page 4 of "LSD and it's Lysergamide cousins" by Nichols:
Quote
The two ethyl groups were incorporated into ring structures such as
the pyrrolidide, piperidide, and morpholide, shown above, but these
also had reduced anti-serotonin and psychedelic effects (Cerletti
and Doepfner 1958).

Although the morpholide had less than one-tenth of the potency of
LSD in blcoking the action of serotonin, it did however have nearly
75% of the potency of LSD as a psychedelic (Gogerty and Dille 1957).
Attached is paper on LSD lysergamides (see page 4) with affinity chart in Table 3.
Quote
Abstract
The pharmacological effects of d-lysergic acid morpholide (LSM) are similar to those of LSD. . The dose of LSM required to raise body temperature in the rabbit is three times as great as that of LSD and the effect is of shorter duration. . On the isolated rat uterus LSM is approximately 1/12 as effective as LSD in antagonizing 5- hydroxytryptamine. . The behavioral effects of LSM in animals are similar to those of LSD but the doses required are approximately 1/3 greater and the effects are of shorter duration. . In human beings (2 volunteers) the effects of LSM were qualitatively similar to those of LSD but the dose required was at least 1/3 larger and the duration of action was shorter.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 04:27:59 AM by tregar »

myCH3

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 03:34:00 PM »
Thank you tregar for that paper, and thank you for the knowledge Toady. 
heres a link to the reference mentioned in that paper that includes it" Cerletti, A., Doepfner, W. (1958) Comparative study on the serotonin antagonism of amide derivatives of lysergic acid and of ergot alkaloids, J. Pharmacol. 122: 124-136." .  I can't access it as well....hxxp://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/122/1/124.full.pdf+html

heres a link for another paper that mentions it being tested on liver flukes along with a bunch of other analogs.  I don't have access to it at the moment but if someone else is able to post it or something i'd love to read it hxxp://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0028390863900133

Dr. Tox

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 08:37:09 PM »
My Methane: I tried to translate that page and, AFAIK, it just says that Lysergamides make men trip balls and stimulates liver flukes.....

Am I missing something?

Other than the possibility that this study was done less to test liver flukes than to get lysergamides into the hands of testing staff?  ;D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 08:52:31 PM by Dr. Tox »
Alimentary, dear Watson; I had a gut feeling.

atara

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 10:48:35 PM »
If LSM shows significant kappa agonist activity, I'll... do something embarrassing. But that's okay, because it isn't going to. It does sound like fun, though.

myCH3

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 11:40:15 PM »
probably not, I was actually just interested in reading the paper.... This subject just intrigues as I'm sure it does many of you.  And one would hope men of science would have higher morals than exploiting those poor little ole' lliver flukes.  lols.  To bad those guys didn't record trip reports. 

tregar

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2012, 07:05:26 AM »
I recently found 4-aco-dmt to be just as every bit as good as LSD (just recently tried out 25mg, with 7mg booster later) very euphoric, 100% mind manifesting, amazing body high similar to a mix of mdma + an opiate, yet still with good subtle LSD like energy. I really think if I ever got the chance to try Acetyl-LSD (the popular ALD-52, a version of LSD with much less anxiety) that it would be similar to my experience with 4-aco-dmt, no anxiety, yet was still able to reach peach experience with it, just as I had in the past with high dose LSD. This will be my "LSD alternative" forever, every bit as good.

WazOne

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 12:16:06 PM »
Do you know the longterm effects of 4-aco-dmt? Has it even been tested on rats yet? I guess if you keep abusing it you will let us know!
Id stick with lsd as its far from Research.
Cheers

Ps  just how many human trials has this rc had?

tregar

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 02:41:31 PM »
It's the acetyl-version of psilocin, similar to how ALD-52 is the acetyl-version of LSD (identical to LSD according to Hoffman, but with less anxiety)...believed to be the famous "orange sunshine" produced by Owsley.  It feels like the most natural substance i've ever put into my body. It is believed to be a pro-drug and converts to actual psilocin in the body (Shulgin convers this in TIHKAL). I and most others find it different from mushrooms in that it has way less anxiety, is more euphoric, not chaotic, and like the perfect "in-between" between mushrooms and LSD, it leans more on the acid side being cosmic (like a slowed down dmt trip) and easy to handle like acid.  Shulgin tested hundreds of similar compounds reviewed in his book. I'm a gym rat too, so I'm the closest rat this stuff has been tested on probably. The compound has become harder to find and I doubt it will be around for much longer (years). Animals don't make very good psychedelic tester usually.  When I was very young, I remember acid sheets flowing like wine, all my friends had pieces of them at the time until the missle silo bust years later which put an end to all the fun.

I prefer only the classics like LSD, mescaline and this which I consider every bit as good as any classic, in the same ranks. I've always been a big fan of LSD having taken hundreds of doses over a 10 year period (so I love ergolines), and find 4-aco-dmt to be the perfect replacement in every way. I don't want to risk trying to get acid anymore, besides it's become hard to find in dreams (and very expensive), and there is no need with this 4-aco-dmt, a perfect molecule imho, kudos to the chemist who comes up with a more perfect chemical than this. But back on subject, i've seen morpholine available from several different places, and I have Otto's book on LSD, "LSD, my problem child" from Hoffman, "LSD, doorway to the numinous", and some others, value the Sacred mind state produced by ergolines which have always been my favorite, however, I also really enjoy Mescaline, which I've taken for many years, long considered the "cream de la cream of psychedelics". I've written extensively on what I believed the Kykeon was that was drunk by the psychedelic initiates at the telestrion in ancient Greece, if you ask me it was some sort of acetal-ated ergoline made from ergot, i've made acetyl-LSA, and it is much better than LSA. It would have been very easy for them to produce this back then using only a water extract on crushed ergot with cloth as a filter, then use wine & mint to create the acetyl-version of Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide and LSA.  The Telestrion housed hundreds of initiates at a time, so you would need the "freak-out" potential to be very low for all these initiates gathered together in one place for this Sacred Communion, and acetyl-ergolines would have easily filled the requirement, being highly psychedelic while very low in anxiety.  What is Ergot but really tiny mushrooms anyways...that you need a microscope to see.

But yes, please keep in mind that these are mere research chemicals and they are not approved for animal or human use, so there have been no animal studies done on them that I am aware of. I've had many brushes with death in my life (survived a fire only by minutes)..the fire destroyed all I owned, then a year later barely survied a flood which destroyed everything I owned, also nearly killed in a car that side swiped me, barely survived another accident, i consider myself sort of like a Shaman, in that I've come so close to death so many times, on the outskirts of society, a risk taker with adhd, so there you have it.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 03:08:52 PM by tregar »

highdopamine123

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2012, 03:31:02 PM »
I'm the "reason" 4-aco-dmt is widely available. Didn't invent it or anything awesome all i did was convince one chinese company to synth me 10g.  Problems with salts solidifying led me to give them the rhodium synth, then the fumarate salts became more widely used. 

I found the acetate salt to be just as stable (at room temp, in a baggie in a closed area).


dream0n

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2012, 11:13:57 PM »
Then 'we' must thank you highdopamine123, anytime you have something made for you Give them the literature for it (unless you think they already have it...)  So Very OT. / rules.
Back to LSM- did anyone do anything hypothetically -or are we just talking out of our asses?
----
What is everyone's opinion on the importance of having Lysergic Acid Hydrate against using  ,of comparable purity, Lysergic Acid ?
I notice this in several places that their is some reference to keeping either a dry or wet product.
off to bigger and better things - don't worry I will visit from time to time

Tsathoggua

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2012, 12:15:54 PM »
One certainly does not need a microscope to see ergot sclerotia. Toady has quite a few collections of wild-type sclerotia that are awaiting suitable circumstances to bee subjected to mutagenesis, culture etc, 

He needed no microscope, although he has a very good quality one, he simply went out and picked them from some parasitized grass heads.
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fresh1

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2012, 02:24:47 PM »
Quote
led me to give them the rhodium synth

lol great stuff  8)

 although I am surprised that ANYONE who plays with recdrug synthesis doesnt know about Rhodiums site....unless they're blocked by the Great Firewall :-\
 
"Curiosity is a gift"

tregar

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2012, 02:01:25 PM »
Wazone, I value your post and guess what! It turns out we are both (me and she) allergic to 4-aco-dmt afterall.....my 2nd trip on this stuff was  full of side effects and nothing in the way of psychedelia...neither of our bodies could process this 4-aco version to even make it psychedelic, all it did was give us both clogged up nasal passages (could not breathe thru nose), persistent  nausea, heaviness in head, heavy sedation, killed desire to get up and move around, just wanted to go to sleep....however, the 4-ho-dmt has thousands of years of Shamanic use in Cultures and is said to be just as nice as Hawaiian Copelandia Cyanescens (pure psilocin/psilocybin/serotonin) with no baeocystin, etc. which often add confusion and other dark effects in. will track progress in this part of forum to convert 4-aco to 4-ho-dmt with simple reflux, use tums for proper ph, grain alcohol to dissolve the stuff so that it can dissolve and react with the tums, look forward to this.

highdopamine123

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Re: LSM?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2012, 07:34:53 AM »
Wazone, I value your post and guess what! It turns out we are both (me and she) allergic to 4-aco-dmt afterall.....my 2nd trip on this stuff was  full of side effects and nothing in the way of psychedelia...neither of our bodies could process this 4-aco version to even make it psychedelic, all it did was give us both clogged up nasal passages (could not breathe thru nose), persistent  nausea, heaviness in head, heavy sedation, killed desire to get up and move around, just wanted to go to sleep....however, the 4-ho-dmt has thousands of years of Shamanic use in Cultures and is said to be just as nice as Hawaiian Copelandia Cyanescens (pure psilocin/psilocybin/serotonin) with no baeocystin, etc. which often add confusion and other dark effects in. will track progress in this part of forum to convert 4-aco to 4-ho-dmt with simple reflux, use tums for proper ph, grain alcohol to dissolve the stuff so that it can dissolve and react with the tums, look forward to this.

Ha, funny, i was actually going to ask about this maybe on this forum. I'd like to convert some 4-aco-dmt to good old psilocin.  Maybe a dose at a time.  I have 4-aco-dmt acetate salt so could I use very tiny (accurately measured with liquid) amount of NaOH to neutralize both aco groups but not have it oxidize (one time I dissolved a dose of 4-aco-dmt in a vial of water, and added a "sprinkle" of NaOH to it in water, it started to turn greenish blue almost immediately.  I put some kind of acid in right away to stop it.  Got it around ph 7 and drank it down.  It was probably that oxidized psilocin i forget what its called.  But the trip was different and not very fun.  It was "weird". 

I would like to be able to do this one dose at a time, can I use equal molar amounts of NaOH to neutralize the acetate salt part and turn the 4-aco into an HO? Can it be done with a lighter base like sodium carbonate?