Author Topic: ma huang (ephedra) extractions  (Read 207 times)

raiden

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ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« on: February 18, 2013, 01:47:01 AM »
What would be the best or easiest way to extract the alkaloids to high purity?

We have already extracted with alcohol to make a concentrate.

But having difficulty finding acid / base teks.  Found some but they seemed far over the top and using many harder to get items.

I was hoping a more simple base to ph 13, non polar naptha and back extract with acetic acid or something similar?

Whale

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2013, 02:00:51 AM »
Basify it with lye. Steam distill it. Neutralize the ph with HCl, then get water/alcohol off with a hairdryer. To get a salt bubble HCl gas into it. You can setup a ghetto gas generator with a couple of bottles and stuff you can find at the hardware store. Be careful with it though
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 02:03:47 AM by %1 »

raiden

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2013, 11:47:40 PM »
Thank you.

The extract is powder

So I should add water and lye and steam distill?

What temperature should I heat too, to make the ephedrine carry over?

Whale

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 12:42:31 AM »
Steam distillation is with water so 100c is all you really need.

raiden

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 01:28:30 AM »
OK got ya,
the seperate the oil and bubble hcl?


What about straight to base like dmt - would that method work also?

raiden

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 01:50:24 AM »
How about if I wanted all the alkaloids easily?

Simple acid base?

Lye, water, extract and naptha?    :p

raiden

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 02:07:45 AM »
HOW about this???????


    Dissolve the solids from the evaporation of methanol or denatured in distilled water     heat the water up so all the stuff dissolves very well
    Chill  Then put the solution in the freezer for 1/2 hour to 2 hours (this solidifies the waxes so they can be filtered off.)
    Filter  the colder the better. I wait until it is a semi solid, toss it in a large funnel and come back 30 minutes later
    Evaporate the liquid  until dry . Supplement the stove with a hair dryer, especially when evaporating water.
    Use the stove's heat  let it come to a full boil, then back the heat down,  you loose ephedrine when it is in boiling water.
    Run a hair dryer blowing on the surface this will save you a bunch. The hair dryer actually cools the solution and promotes evaporation.

Doc B

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 11:12:31 AM »
This is your x20 extract I take it?

I'm not sure if your extract is in alcohol or in powder presently or if it's the base or the salt, as your not very clear. You'd do well to tidy up your notes. ;)

Let's get you to the salt in water from wherever you may be first. You'll need the following...

- pH meter/papers
<hardware store>
- HCl
- Lye
- rock salt
- drying agent MnSO4, CaCl2, etc.
- organic solvents (xylene/toluene, naphtha, etc)
- isopropyl alcohol
- water
- fluid vessels and transfer mediums (beakers, sep funnel, or ghetto equivalent)
- PPE (gloves, glasses, apron, etc) PUT IT ALL ON FIRST GREEN HORN!

1. Add whatever you have, alcohol or powder, to a volume of water.
2. Measure the pH.
3. Adjust to pH 7 with 10% HCl in water with good stirring. Don't over shoot it; add HCl drop wise, then stir, then wait and measure again.
4. Let the solution rest and confirm pH 7
5. Evaporate of the alcohol (if you know you have the salt in alcohol you'd start here)(n/a if you have the powdered extract)
6. Wash aqueous solution x2 with at least 20% aqueous volume equivalent of organic solvent like toluene or xylene. Repeat until wash fluid is clean.
7. Wash aqueous solution with at least 20% aqueous volume equivalent of organic solvent like naphtha. Repeat until wash fluid is clean.
8. Add a cooled solution of 50% lye (CAUTION MIXING THE LYE WITH WATER RELEASES HEAT) in water until pH13. (again don't over shoot it). Smell it! Kinda fishy, no?
9. Add rock salt until no more will dissolve in the water.
10. Extract freebase x3 with organic solvent (toluene/xylene) of at least 20% aqueous volume equivalent.
11. Dry it by letting it sit for a few hours, then decanting into another vessel with drying agent (anhydrous MnSO4 or CaCl2)
12. Filter out the solids.
13. Gas or titrate with 10% HCl, then dry the salts and wash salts with organic solvent.
14. Recrystalise by dissolving salts in minimum amount of boiling isopropyl alcohol (CAUTION FLAMMABLE) and allowing to cool to room temp, then cover an place in the freezer.
15. Decant of the alcohol and marvel at the beautiful sight before you.

That's enough spoon feeding for you green horn. You need to find out how to do titration, gassing, filtering, etc. If you can't or its just too hard then find another hobby and pass me that extract LOL :p

POSEIDON

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 09:19:08 AM »
Look in this book pg 96,chapter VII alkaloids of ephedra
The technology and chemistry of alkaloids / Hamerslag, Frank E

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015069112228;seq=10;view=1up;num=vi
The chemists are a strange class of mortals, impelled by an almost insane impulse to seek their pleasures amid smoke and vapour, soot and flame, poisons and poverty; yet among all these evils I seem to live so sweetly that may I die if I were to change places with the Persian king.
— Johann Joachim

raiden

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Re: ma huang (ephedra) extractions
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 11:20:16 PM »
I found this much easier method  :P

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z6aA5ABYe0

If this video is true then all i do is...


Use ammonia solution to make the ma huang extract a solution that is raised to to PH11

Use ethyl acetate to extract from the about solution ( i assume by swirling and pippetting off the ethyl acetate)

Evaporate the ethyl acetate to leave crude a crude solution of ephedrine alkaloids

Add hydrochloric acid solution and lower PH to reach between 5 - 6.5PH

Allow this to stand for 12 hours and the epherdine will prcipitate and settle



Sounds far easier than anything else I have read or been sugggested here so far  :p   I assume its real and would work?