Author Topic: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.  (Read 155 times)

Assyl Fartrate

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P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« on: March 13, 2013, 04:25:16 AM »
(NH4)2S2O8 and Cu(OAc)2 in AcOH, 100C, 0.5-2 hour run time:

Styrene: 58% conversion, 45% converted to phenacetaldehyde and 24% to the enol acetate (easily hydrolyzed to phenacetaldehyde).

alpha-Methylstyrene: 97% conversion, 91% converted to hydratropic aldehyde.

beta-Methylstyrene (propenylbenzene): 55% conversion, 82% converted to P2P.

Odds are that the conversion could be improved in the last case by letting the reaction run longer. With the first, some of the aldehyde might start getting chewed up so percent of material converted into the desired products may drop somewhat with time.
Someone Who Is Me

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 04:51:43 AM »
Ever debated the merits of ordering a 55 gallon drum of alpha-methylstyrene from China? Shouldn't be such a tough decision now.

Does anyone know if poly-alpha-methylstyrene can be depolymerized appropriately? Does it go as smoothly as thermal depolymerization of styrene?

That said,  the shadow people have arrived. More on this and other topics later.
Someone Who Is Me

EMTWC

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 05:18:01 AM »
man you sound SOOOOO familiar...can't wait to hear about the shadow folk
roll some bones and catch a fire

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 12:55:33 PM »
Alright, don't actually order 55 gallon drums of this, apparently the feds are privy to it having illicit uses.
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zgoat65

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 01:08:18 AM »
Not only are the fedz possibly onto it, but it is controlled by a group with more power than the DEA, and that group is called the EPA.  The same folks that make it so hard to purchase Hg salts, and you can bet that if a 55gal drum is ordered, they will pay a visit to the address to ensure that means of disposal are in place and adhered to.
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Balkan Bonehead

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 01:20:51 AM »
Not contradicting the above two posts, but what leads you to believe that the feds are keeping tabs on sales of alpha-methylstyrene and/or that the EPA has some sort of special regard for this chemical (that is, I am assuming moreso than xylene, say)? Also note: buying a 55 gallon drum of xylene may lead to unwanted attn. also, so maybe I am reading too much into it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 01:23:23 AM by sw0lepapi420 »

zgoat65

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 02:45:03 AM »
As far as AMS being known by the DEA as a precursor for manufacture of illicit substances, I haven't a clue whether they do or not.  I have read dozens and dozens of scientific journals and patents that describe ways that AMS can be made into compounds that we know and love.  Logically, if it is known, then it is known.

I DO KNOW that AMS is listed in some kind of Sea Trade agreement (I forgot exactly what it is called) which puts large orders on SOMEBODY's list, and i am almost certain that it is the EPA.  And i am also pretty sure that it is the disposal of IT and its byproducts that they are MOST concerned about.  I am pretty sure it is called something like the Trade Agreement of the Sea or something similar.  But it is a fact that it is watched.  Just not so much by the DEA, imho.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 02:47:33 AM by zgoat65 »
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Balkan Bonehead

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Re: P2P, hydratropic aldehyde, phenylacetaldehyde by Cu(OAc)2 and (NH4)2S2O8 ox.
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 04:47:46 AM »