Author Topic: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws  (Read 367 times)

German

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« on: August 24, 2009, 08:57:02 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_on_re_us/us_meth_s_new_method

AP IMPACT: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws

TULSA, Okla. – This is the new formula for methamphetamine: a two-liter soda bottle, a few handfuls of cold pills and some noxious chemicals. Shake the bottle and the volatile reaction produces one of the world's most addictive drugs.

Only a few years ago, making meth required an elaborate lab — with filthy containers simmering over open flames, cans of flammable liquids and hundreds of pills. The process gave off foul odors, sometimes sparked explosions and was so hard to conceal that dealers often "cooked" their drugs in rural areas.

But now drug users are making their own meth in small batches using a faster, cheaper and much simpler method with ingredients that can be carried in a knapsack and mixed on the run. The "shake-and-bake" approach has become popular because it requires a relatively small number of pills of the decongestant pseudoephedrine — an amount easily obtained under even the toughest anti-meth laws that have been adopted across the nation to restrict large purchases of some cold medication.

"Somebody somewhere said 'Wait this requires a lot less pseudoephedrine, and I can fly under the radar,'" said Mark Woodward, spokesman for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control.

An Associated Press review of lab seizures and interviews with state and federal law enforcement agents found that the new method is rapidly spreading across the nation's midsection and is contributing to a spike in the number of meth cases after years of declining arrests.

The new formula does away with the clutter of typical meth labs, and it can turn the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall into a makeshift drug factory. Some addicts have even made the drug while driving.

The pills are crushed, combined with some common household chemicals and then shaken in the soda bottle. No flame is required.

Using the new formula, batches of meth are much smaller but just as dangerous as the old system, which sometimes produces powerful explosions, touches off intense fires and releases drug ingredients that must be handled as toxic waste.

"If there is any oxygen at all in the bottle, it has a propensity to make a giant fireball," said Sgt. Jason Clark of the Missouri State Highway Patrol's Division of Drug and Crime Control. "You're not dealing with rocket scientists here anyway. If they get unlucky at all, it can have a very devastating reaction."

One little mistake, such as unscrewing the bottle cap too fast, can result in a huge blast, and police in Alabama, Oklahoma and other states have linked dozens of flash fires this year — some of them fatal — to meth manufacturing.

"Every meth recipe is dangerous, but in this one, if you don't shake it just right, you can build up too much pressure, and the container can pop," Woodward said.

When fire broke out in older labs, "it was usually on a stove in a back room or garage and people would just run, but when these things pop, you see more extreme burns because they are holding it. There are more fires and more burns because of the close proximity, whether it's on a couch or driving down the road."

After the chemical reaction, what's left is a crystalline powder that users smoke, snort or inject. They often discard the bottle, which now contains a poisonous brown and white sludge. Dozens of reports describe toxic bottles strewn along highways and rural roads in states with the worst meth problems.

The do-it-yourself method creates just enough meth for a few hits, allowing users to make their own doses instead of buying mass-produced drugs from a dealer.

"It simplified the process so much that everybody's making their own dope," said Kevin Williams, sheriff of Marion County, Ala., about 80 miles west of Birmingham. "It can be your next-door neighbor doing it. It can be one of your family members living downstairs in the basement."

A typical meth lab would normally take days to generate a full-size batch of meth, which would require a heat source and dozens, maybe hundreds, of boxes of cold pills.

But because the new method uses far less pseudoephedrine, small-time users are able to make the drug in spite of a federal law that bars customers from buying more than 9 grams — roughly 300 pills — a month.

The federal government and dozens of states adopted restrictions on pseudoephedrine in 2005, and the number of lab busts fell dramatically.

The total number of clandestine meth lab incidents reported to the Drug Enforcement Administration fell from almost 17,400 in 2003 to just 7,347 in 2006.

But the number of busts has begun to climb again, and some authorities blame the shake-and-bake method for renewing meth activity.

The AP review of 14 states found:

• At least 10 states reported increases in meth lab seizures or meth-related arrests from 2007 to 2008.

• The Mississippi State Crime Lab participated in 457 meth incidents through May 31, up from 122 for the same period a year ago — a nearly 275 percent increase.

• Several states, such as Oklahoma and Tennessee, are on pace this year to double the number of labs busted in 2008. The director of Tennessee's meth task force said the pace of lab busts in his state is projected to be about 1,300 for 2009, compared with 815 for all of 2008.

Some states lack a central database to monitor cold medicine sales, so meth cooks circumvent state laws by pill shopping in multiple cities and states — a practice known as "smurfing" that allows them to stay under restrictions placed on sales.

Traci Fruit, a special agent with the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, said law enforcement officials are becoming increasingly frustrated because there's no way to tell who is buying what "unless we go from store to store ourselves and pull up the records."

Historically, rural states like Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas have been hotbeds for meth use because an important ingredient in the traditional method, anhydrous ammonia, was easily available from tanks on farms where it's used as a fertilizer. But the new formula does not need anhydrous ammonia and instead uses ammonium nitrate, a compound easily found in instant cold packs that can be purchased at any drug store.

Data from the Justice Department and the DEA data suggest the method could only be in its early stages, and "shake-and-bake" labs have recently been discovered as far north as Indiana and as far east as West Virginia.

States surveyed by the AP also included: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, Kansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

While many law enforcement agencies are just learning how to spot the new labs, other states are rushing to close loopholes in laws limiting the sale of meth ingredients.

Mississippi Sen. Sid Albritton, said that state's law — modeled after Oklahoma's — forces buyers to show identification and makes stores keep a log of cold medicine sales. But the problem in Mississippi is lack of technology to instantly log purchases in a central database.

"You have to understand going in that drugs are an evolutionary process," said Albritton, a former police detective and narcotics officer. "The day after we pass a law, they are going to look for ways to circumvent that."

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 09:05:47 PM »
Pathetic Fear mongering.... They can run there mouths so much Lets see some experimental data from there labs proving a usable amount of Methamphetamines are being made..... I would have to say Test prove otherwise in making anything in a useful quantity and somefolks must just like PSE and CMP laces Methamphetamine.

You don't believe try for your self. The only thing I have seen hold true is the fact it won't blowup in your face like some thought at first.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 04:15:14 AM »
Well it's basically the same as using ammonia- since it's still done with lithium and lithium + ammonium nitrate gives ammonia anyways. And yeah Sedit, the chemistry is sound it's just that this yahoo report is oversimplified, as it would still require lithium batteries and sulfuric acid and stuff, not completely "shake and bake".
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 04:26:41 AM by rocketman »

Douchermann

  • Dominant Queen
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 07:43:04 AM »
At least this draws the attention toward psuedo more.  Keeps the attention away from Toluene :)

Well, the sheeple of america will have a feild day with this one.  What outrageous claims they are making haha "requires less pills".  Less pills = less meth, dipshits.  Read about conservation of matter, instead of scary soda bottles, and the teenagers that are ingesting this; who of course are the spawn of the devil.  Perhaps the vespiary should buy out a news station.  We'll make bullshit claims that might seem realistic to those skimming, but the gleaners will catch it surely.  Imagine The Onion News, but less outrageous - much more subtle perhaps. 

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 04:42:06 PM »
Well it's basically the same as using ammonia- since it's still done with lithium and lithium + ammonium nitrate gives ammonia anyways. And yeah Sedit, the chemistry is sound it's just that this yahoo report is oversimplified, as it would still require lithium batteries and sulfuric acid and stuff, not completely "shake and bake".

Its nothing like using pure anhydrous NH3, The chemistry is not really sound thats just something thats running around these forums latly. The chemistry is based on a couple obscure patents that did not even use a biphasic mixture and involved feeding dry NH3 into a warm non polar with lithium in it for hours on end until Li(NH3)4 AKA lithium bronze was synthesised. The way of performing this in a coke bottle does not even hold these same conditions even slightly.

I will repeat the process is easy enough so try it and come back telling me the chemistry is sound because what sounds good on paper is a joke in reality. If you want to turn 5 grams of starting material into 500mg of usable product after cleaning all the shit out then I guess this is for you. I have seen quite a few reporting alot of success but I have to wounder what the normal quality of there street dope is for them to think this is good.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 11:11:20 PM »
Also it could just be ephedrine. Likely people attempting this method might not know anything or have tried anything and in reality they're only feeling the effects of ephedrine and placebo.
With a little placebo effect, wouldn't surprise me, especially if they take a relatively high dose due to them not being able to measure, being familiar with the density of the powders, etc.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 12:27:20 AM »
No I have respect for some of those that are claiming success but I wounder if what they feel is CMP and not Methamphetamine. CMP is the hydronated form of MA and its effects are known to be simular but weaker. I wounder about its creation because CMP appears to be one oxidation away from MA and if that can be made thru the birch reduction of Lithium in alcohol then the final product could be extracted and oxidised to the goods. This would be very sound chemistry if my theory holds up and would prove a useble method of Methamphetamine synthesis. Reduction of the OH and benzylic ring makes it hard to perform one over the other yet the oxidation would more then likely not result in PSE no matter how powerful the oxidiser.

Does this make sence to anyone else? Reduce all the way then oxidise back to what you want.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 04:16:11 AM »
lithium + ammonium nitrate + ephedrine
2Li + NH4NO3 + R-OH >>> LiNO3 + NH3 + .5H2 + R-OH >>> LiNO3 + LiNH2 + H2 + R-OH >>> LiNO3 + Li-OR + NH3 + H2.

sulfuric acid is added
LiNO3 + Li-OR + NH3 + H2 + H2SO4 >>> Li2SO4 + NH4NO3 + H2O + R-H (methamphetamine).

It all adds up. What's CMP?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 05:44:06 AM by rocketman »

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 10:56:37 PM »
There are so many reactions that add up on paper in organic chemistry it aint even funny. However what you propose is not even what is suggested as the reaction claimed converts ammonia nitrate into ammonia and sodium nitrate using NaOH. This creates the reducing agent Lithium bronze thru the action of NH3 on Lithium. This is suppose to reduce the Pseudoephedrine. May I ask where you got this idea from rocketman?


Cyclohexadienyl-2-methylaminopropane is the over reduced results of the real birch reduction where the benzylic ring is reduced as well. It is known to have simular but weaker and more "Toxic" effects.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 11:53:09 PM »
You are right, CMP is formed with this reaction (see below), but I don't think it's too much a problem. extra NaOH would just turn ammonium nitrate into ammonium hydroxide/ ammonia + water which would work just as well. Where did I get this idea? Idk, but I was always pretty sure that Li + NH3 makes LiNH2 aka lithium amide not Li(NH3)4 aka lithium bronze. My main point though is that we all know the Nazi way works (since it was used by nazis) and if you need Li + NH3, using 2Li + NH4NO3 + NaOH = 2Li + NH4OH + NaNO3, you'd still get Li + NH3, along with NaNO3 + LiOH.

"One of the methods of manufacturing methamphetamine is the reduction of ephedrine or psuedoephedrine utilizing an alkali metal such as lithium or sodium, and liquid ammonia. This method is often referred to as the Birch-Benkeser reduction method or more commonly, as the “Nazi” method. The hydroxyl group of (pseudo)ephedrine is more reactive than the aromatic ring, but with excess alkali metal and the presence of an added proton source, a cyclohexadiene is formed." http://acs.confex.com/acs/werm05/techprogram/P24880.HTM

So you are right, CMP can be formed, but with NaOH there's no proton source, which should mean most of it is meth.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 12:26:20 AM by rocketman »

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 01:31:32 AM »
Water is the proton source.

NH4NO3 + NaOH ? NH3 + HOH + NaNO3

Lithium bronze is a pretty unstable compound that only exist under certine conditions and synthesis of it will not be the easiest of things without anhydrous conditions.

There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 01:34:48 AM »
Heh, they ought to use MgO or some other reactive metal oxide instead of NaOH.
Its a bit trickier to get, sure, but it gives 50% less protons which could make this silly method a bit more useful.. perhaps.

Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 02:10:57 AM »
The water reacts with the lithium. There goes your proton source.

2Li + NH3 + H2O > LiNH2 + LiOH + H2
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:12:46 AM by rocketman »

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2009, 02:15:52 AM »
 :-X?

I quit!

Read up on the kinetics of the birch reduction.

Quote
Heh, they ought to use MgO or some other reactive metal oxide instead of NaOH.
Its a bit trickier to get, sure, but it gives 50% less protons which could make this silly method a bit more useful.. perhaps.

Your on a pretty good path vesp. One thing that I have thought about is the use of monoammonium phosphate which decomposed releasing dry NH3 in the process.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:19:01 AM by Sedit »
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2009, 03:32:20 AM »
Adding MgO is the same thing as adding Li! Both will get rid of the water from NH4OH.

MgO + NH4OH = Mg(OH)2 + NH3
Li + NH4OH = LiOH + NH3 + .5H2

And wtf is lithium bronze? I can't find anything on it anywhere. Everywhere I look it says Lithium reacts with ammonia to make lithium amide, which makes sense because in Birch REduction, lithium and ammonia are used in 1:1 mole ration.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 03:36:23 AM by rocketman »

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2009, 03:50:16 AM »
Not a big fan of it but I must say UTFSE. The first hit on google is what im presenting here attached.

Li*4NH3 is the way that its discribed. As I understand it is a complex between Lithium and ammonia. Heating this can yeild lithium amide or LiNH2. I am wayyyyy more interested in Lithium bronzes super base abilitys then I am its reduction capacity. Its ability to deprotanate DMSO has much more potential to the trained eye then a simple reduction of Pseudoephedrine ever could.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

German

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2009, 04:00:57 AM »
I heart Sedit  :-* . He is so's smart :) Makes me so warm and fuzzy  :D

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2009, 04:03:09 AM »
Ok, no LiNH2

Apparently lithium and ammonia react only very slowly to give lithium amide in absence of catalysts, and that's considered a waste. So I was wrong with all those equations. But lithium bronze is not involved either. As far as the birch reduction goes it's just Li + NH3.

My point remains though.
2 Li + NH4NO3 + NaOH > NaNO3 + LiOH + Li + NH3
You still have the Li + NH3 in there. And everything is still anhydrous.

http://books.google.com/books?id=B2pp-7K8sXoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 04:13:47 AM by rocketman »

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2009, 04:27:19 AM »
You know you love me german.... now on ya knees and show some love for once ::).  No no im about as retarted as a shortbus kid on his first day of school. But non the least I know enough to say that there is NOTHING anhydrous about ammonia nitrate + NaOH.

Lithium will react with the H2O and theres LiOH and your violent proton that reaks the havok you want and don't want all at the same time. Il say it again RESEARCH the birch reaction kinetics and you will quickly find that the normal pseudoephedrine reduction don't even quite fall into that catogory. It is already a funky reaction and tossing H2O in the mix FUCKS EVERY THING UP!. Try it... see if Meth is made...... Report back!!!! that fuckin easy.....

Look over at wet dreams as well as theres an extensive threed tracing this reaction the report was written on. No need for assumptions that have already been assumed and shot down.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

rocketman

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: New meth formula avoids anti-drug laws
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2009, 04:49:23 AM »
me, try it? most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. I could not make chloral hydrate from ethanol! fuck, i couldn't even extract the propylhexedrine from benzedrex inhalers! Pathetic. I really don't even belong on this forum.

:P??:P????:P??????:P????????:P??????????:P????????????:P??????????????:P????????????????:P??????????????????:P
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 04:56:50 AM by rocketman »