I'm trying to read up on methods of purification of MDP-2-P that has been derived from the Methyl Man benzoquinone wacker aside from vacuum distillation.  Sodium Bisulfite adduct formation is not a good option for this either as unreacted benzoquinone forms an adduct as well due to its double bonded oxygen.  So this leaves inefficient steam distillation as an option, but what about TLC?

I'm curious, after searching the hive archives and other websites I've never really found any info on people using TLC to purify MDP-2-P.  What about solvents / rf value?  More specifically to purify mdp2p derived from the Methyl Man wacker where quinones are a major impurity.

I'm curious how effective it may be instead of vacuum distillation.  As far concerns about related impurities that have a methylenedioxy functional group, those aren't a big concern as they'll be removed via recrystallization of the amine salt.  Plus they're typically a very small amount unlike the o2 wackers which potentially produce the aldehyde in large percentages sometimes.

I'm not very knowledgeable with TLC at all, only recently began reading up on it.  I used to just disregard all chromatography talk knowing it was above my level of comprehension, trying to get a grasp on it now and have been reading up on the basics as of late.

Try column chromatography.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_chromatography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eluent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retention_factor

Ah, thanks for the help setting me straight.

I read a couple links that I found over at ScienceMadness and some other places but I'll be honest it will take reading it a few times for it to really sink in.  I also did read those links along with some other links I found from a google search, thank you.  So I think what I'm trying to ask is, does anyone have info regarding the possibility of using column chromatography, perhaps, to purify MDP-2-P instead of vacuum distillation.

Can a method like h**p://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/equipment/dry.flash.column.chromatography.html be used to isolate MDP-2-P from the impurities such as safrole, isosafrole, residual quinone, of the Methyl Man benzoquinone wacker?  It mentions use of hexane however if I remember correctly Safrole/Isosafrole/MDP-2-P share a similar (limited) solubility in hexane which it seems would be the factor which determines how selective the eluent can be in most cases.  So if that's the case then would this method not be effective in isolating them individually?  How effective would this be in comparison to purification from vacuum distillation or steam distillation of MDP-2-P in small amounts such as under 25g?

Edit:  Here's a simpler example of what I'm thinking.  Use a simple method using a chromatography column, silica, hexane as eleunt.  Start with 20g black/brown MDP-2-P derived from Methyl Man benzoquinone wacker, extracted with DCM, wash the DCM as normal, distill off the DCM to yield the dark impure MDP-2-P.  Put it into the column and hopefully watch the yellow MDP-2-P separate out from the dark tar-derived impurities and collect the MDP-2-P fraction.  But then the question, what solvents to use in the eluent for this purpose?

You could probably learn something from an article I just requested

But in terms of purification - sure, no single step process is going to work (except fractional distillation and that will be a bitch)...

What about forming the bisulfite adduct and then separating those components that also do so by whatever method? Solubility, fractional crystallization, simple distillation, whatever else...

Thanks.  I was just reading some of your posts on the old hive archive lugh, in particular "tlc time" by clearlight but unfortunately many of the linked posts are not in my synthetikal-based hive archive.  That's sad to hear that none of the bees from yesteryear verified purification from such a technique considering how low-yielding and inefficient sodium bisulfite is or so I've been told.  I've heard that the trick with sodium bisulfite is that you need to start from already fairly pure ketone, which kind of defeats the purpose unless you're forming the adduct for long-term storage and not purification.  I've read that impurities inhibit crystallization, giving "chicken fat" and lower yields, whereas the adduct formed from distilled ketone is supposedly much more crystalline like that formed from acetone.

A bee I know online has used petroleum ether as an extraction solvent which gives a bright red kool-aid colored ketone but it took 10-15 extractions since it's such a selective solvent.  It didn't yield as much ketone because it can't penetrate the tars but the ketone is seemingly decent enough to aminate well he said but there was a lot of unreacted clear oil that caused problems with crystallization, apparently the oils made it past the a/b.  The oils were put under a fan until hardened then everything was scraped up and tossed in acetone allowing only the crystals to make it past.  So from random information I've gathered here and there I've realized just how important pure ketone is, not only for yields but to keep crystals from oiling out.

no1uno, I actually have that reference you're looking for.  Check that post I just uploaded it.  What's crazy is that they follow the Methyl Man procedure (except for a 3 hour reaction time and scaled down 10x).  They extract with DCM, do the washes as usual, then dry the DCM with MgSO4, filter out the MgSO4 and evaporate the DCM to reveal a "straw yellow oil".  Now I don't know what kind of magic DCM they're using but every bee I've ever talked to doesn't get a "straw yellow oil" until after vacuum distillation or some other effective purification procedure.