Author Topic: 2c-e and its salts (Read 122 times)

Agent Madhatter · « **on:** September 24, 2009, 01:05:08 AM »

So I recently got 2c-e in the mail. Fucking Pyramid schemes you know?

Anyways, Its in the HCl salt and I was wondering if....actually, not if, but what, different salts effect the trip?

For example... If 2c-e-Tartate would be more potent than 2c-e HCl?

How would you find this out? And if the only way is through testing, how would you convert the HCl to Tartaric?
I believe you have to freebase it, then re-acidify with Tartaric acid...correct?

I read that shulgin had to use a .25 mmHG vacuum to get the 2c-e to form the HCl salt. I hope I read that wrong?

heisenberg · « **Reply #1 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:15:28 AM »

Quote from: Agent Madhatter on September 24, 2009, 01:05:08 AM

For example... If 2c-e-Tartate would be more potent than 2c-e HCl?

In terms of dose weight, no. The molar weight of 2C-E.HCl is less than that of 2C-E.tartrate.

Quote

I believe you have to freebase it, then re-acidify with Tartaric acid...correct?

Yes, convert to the freebase and then acidify with the appropriate acid to make the corresponding salt.

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I read that shulgin had to use a .25 mmHG vacuum to get the 2c-e to form the HCl salt. I hope I read that wrong?

He was probably referring to vacuum distilling the freebase oil.

Agent Madhatter · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:23:37 AM »

So the dosage depends on the molar weight?

poisoninthestain · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:25:18 AM »

Salt forms generally do not effect trips to much degree.

-HCl, -SO4, tartrate ect...mainly have to do with solubility and dosage issues, also if you're insulfating a certain substances this plays a role(such as 2C-B HCl burns like hell compared to the HBr which is considerably smoother).

Yes, convert to the freebase and acidify.

Also, shulgin used that vaccuum strength not to form the HCl salt but to distill the 2C-E freebase AND THEN addition of the acid to form the hydrochloride. From personal experience that vac strength isn't even neccesary, 1atm is fine, no vac.

heisenberg beat me to it!

Agent Madhatter · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:41:38 AM »

Well, I've heard things like Cannabinoids potency is effected by salts. Such as formate (sp?), and HCl. The HCl being 10x more potent.

So If I take... 50mg of 2c-e, throw it in a solution of Baking soda, the HCl will bust a nut out of there, then strain the preceps out, throw in some tartaric acid, and strain whats extra, then evaporate the water and be left with 2c-e Tartarte?

But this won't be any more potent? Would something like a Phosphorus salt be more potent? (Converting to freebase, then putting into a soda)

Vesp · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2009, 03:04:56 AM »

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Well, I've heard things like Cannabinoids potency is effected by salts. Such as formate (sp?), and HCl. The HCl being 10x more potent.

Cannabinoids is a class of compounds that affect the cannabinoid receptors...
If you are talking about from MJ, how does that even form a salt?

Dose is determined by essentially to things as far as i know: The molar mass of the theoretical free base present, and its bio-availability.

Salts of things don't really make much of a difference since it is likely to just dissolve in the stomach, and probably turn into the hydrogen chloride from...

Right? I can't imagine the salts really making much of a difference..

Agent Madhatter · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2009, 03:08:35 AM »

I just remember reading a long thread over at the shroomery how two different salts are completely different doses. I'm not sure what it was for =/

Sedit · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2009, 03:11:39 AM »

Various salts of substance have been known to increase/decrease potancy of a substance due to the speed and way that it is metabolized by the body. MDMA*Citrate IIRC is suppose to be more potant then the HCl salt is just as an example.

Its something that you would have to study much into and find out how its metabolized before toying with it.

PS: just read the update

This has alot to do with the weight of the salt. The citrate or tartrate will have a completely different weight where as only the active part is what matters.

NeilPatrickHarris · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2009, 07:28:51 PM »

Not sure what the reasoning is here behind changing the salt form of 2ce, you'll lose some of your goods due to mechanical losses of the a/b changing from hcl to freebase to tartrate.

2ce is dosed in such a small amount why not just make do with the hcl?

Agent Madhatter · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2009, 09:36:53 PM »

I was just curious.

Douchermann · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2009, 05:47:32 AM »

Yeah, salt ions rarely affect activity of the substance. I don't know how much you have, but perhaps you might be interested in attempting one of the various other 2C-Xs

NeilPatrickHarris · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2009, 12:09:55 PM »

Quote from: Agent Madhatter on September 24, 2009, 09:36:53 PM

I was just curious.

I see. Just looking for knowledge, good enough reason. Just wanted to make sure you didn't waste your time converting the salt with an expectation that you'd gain something from it outside of just gaining more experience.

Enkidu · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2009, 07:21:42 PM »

Sometimes different salts can effect the pharmocodynamics.... check at BL

Author Topic: 2c-e and its salts (Read 122 times)

Agent Madhatter

2c-e and its salts

heisenberg

Re: 2c-e and its salts

Agent Madhatter

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poisoninthestain

Re: 2c-e and its salts

Agent Madhatter

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Vesp

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Agent Madhatter

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Sedit

Re: 2c-e and its salts

NeilPatrickHarris

Re: 2c-e and its salts

Agent Madhatter

Re: 2c-e and its salts

Douchermann

Re: 2c-e and its salts

NeilPatrickHarris

Re: 2c-e and its salts

Enkidu

Re: 2c-e and its salts