Author Topic: The Enkephalin Thread  (Read 276 times)

Vesp

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The Enkephalin Thread
« on: March 01, 2009, 09:27:00 AM »
I understand that enkephalins are similar in activity and function to endorphins. Enkephalins  lead to depressed breathing, act as analgesics, and do various other actions you would expect from an opioid. This is because enkephalins are opioids.  Enkephalinase is an enzyme that lowers the concentration of enkephalins by degrading them. If one prevents the degradation of enkephalins, using an enkephalinase inhibitor, such as lactucopicrin, or possibly what is in Salvia Nemorosa,  the enkephalins will increase leading to something similar to a runners high but without the need for running. 
   However, they will not continue to increase allowing you to get higher and higher. There are some limiting factors such as how much your body can, how effectively the enkephalinase enzymes were inhibited, and also how your body will compensate by adjusting  to the levels of enkephalins present.
   Does any one know of other enkephalinase inhibitors, possibly synthetic ones,  or have any ideas how to make their potential high more even higher? Perhaps whatever enzymes might degrade the inhibitors could be inhibited by something else. I know great fruit has a lot of chemicals that inhibit various enzymes used in metabolism.
What do you guys think of this idea…. Either before or after taking an enkephalinase inhibitor  eat very spicy foods - this would increase the amount of enkephalins in the body, leading to much more of a high then had you chosen to only take the hot food, or only the inhibitor.
Also do you think enkaphalinase inhibitors has potential for addiction? I am sure they have slight potential for a psychological dependence, but does it have any physiological risks for addiction? Perhaps since more enzymes are inhibited, the body might produce more - making it so when the drug is not in your body the enkaphalins would be degraded to quick. This could possibly lead to a slight feeling of opiate withdrawal.


here are some interesting links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPEPPS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucopicrin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucarium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enkephalin
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LYC

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 12:35:28 AM »
Interesting, I've never heard about enkephalins. I found these pages on them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RB-101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racecadotril

http://www.opioids.com/enkephalinase/thiorphan.html
http://biopsychiatry.com/enkeph.htm
     http://biopsychiatry.com/enkephalinase.htm
     http://biopsychiatry.com/rb101.htm

I'll have to do some more reading about them! :)
Looks like they really do have some interesting potentials. I think that Racecadotril could be gotten pretty easily. Do you think it crosses the blood brain barrier?

Vesp

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 10:40:06 PM »
"D-phenylalanine, bacitracin and puromycin produce long-lasting, naloxone-reversible analgesia in mice. Analgesic potency parallels potency of these compounds as inhibitors of met-enkephalin degradation by mouse brain enzymes. D-phenylalanine potentiates acupuncture analgesia in mice and humans and has been used to ameliorate a variety of human chronic pain conditions." - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2934746



"Pharmacological properties of acetorphan, a parenterally active "enkephalinase" inhibitor

JM Lecomte, J Costentin, A Vlaiculescu, P Chaillet, H Marcais-Collado, C Llorens-Cortes, M Leboyer and JC Schwartz

Acetorphan, i.e. N-[(R,S)-3-acetylmercapto-2-benzylpropanoyl]-glycine, benzyl ester, is a lipophilic derivative of Thiorphan, a potent inhibitor of "enkephalinase" (EC 3.4.24.11). On purified enkephalinase its inhibitory potency was approximately 1000 fold less than that of Thiorphan but became close to the latter (nanomolar) when it was incubated previously with cerebral membranes. After parenteral administration to mice and rats (1-10 mg/kg) extensive inhibition of cerebral enkephalinase was shown by the depressed enzyme activity in brain membranes from treated animals and the long-lasting potentiation of analgesia elicited by (D-Ala2,Met5)enkephalin (i.c.v.). This suggests that acetorphan easily enters the brain where the active Thiorphan is released. Parenteral acetorphan elicited a series of naloxone-reversible, opioid-like effects, most of which were described previously with intracerebral Thiorphan or other enkephalinase inhibitors. Antinociceptive effects were found in some tests (hot plate jump and phenylbenzoquinone-induced writhing) but not in others (hot plate licking and tail withdrawal). "Antidepressant" effect was found in the "mouse despair" test and antidiarrhoeal effect in the rat castor oil test. Acetorphan also elicited significant increases and decreases in turnover indexes of serotonin and noradrenaline, respectively, in mouse cerebral cortex. In mice chronically treated with acetorphan, the antinociceptive activity of the compound was not modified markedly and no overt withdrawal symptom could be observed after either treatment interruption or administration of naloxone. " -- http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/237/3/937
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Naf1

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 12:59:50 AM »
Sorry if this is too random;

Morphine in cow and human milk: could dietary morphine constitute a ligand for specific morphine (mu) receptors?
E Hazum, JJ Sabatka, KJ Chang, DA Brent, JW Findlay, and P Cuatrecasas

Science 28 August 1981:Vol. 213. no. 4511, pp. 1010 - 1012 DOI: 10.1126/science.6267691

Morphine has been found in cow and human milk at concentrations of 200 to 500 nanograms per liter. Multistep purification yields a material that has immunological, biological, pharmacological, and chemical properties identical to those of morphine. Similar morphine-like material, which has been tentatively identified in some common plant sources, may be a ubiquitous dietary constituent and a possible source for the material in milk. Since morphine (mu) receptors have a low affinity for enkephalins, and since morphine-like materials have been described in brain and intestine, it is possible that morphine in food may be the source of this material and a normal ligand specific for mu receptors.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/213/4511/1010

Naf1

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 01:03:42 AM »
I was also talking with hypnos about this (payback for the old morphine in the breast milk trick);

Pregnancy
A placental tissue of foetal origin — i.e. the syncytiotrophoblast — excretes beta-endorphins into the maternal blood system from the 3rd month of pregnancy. A recent study [25] proposes an adaptive background for this phenomenon. The authors argue that foetuses make their mothers endorphin-dependent then manipulate them to increase nutrient allocation to the placenta. Their hypothesis predicts that: (1) anatomic position of endorphin production should mirror its presumed role in foetal-maternal conflict; (2) endorphin levels should co-vary positively with nutrient carrying capacity of maternal blood system; (3) postpartum psychological symptoms (such as postpartum blues, depression and psychosis) in humans are side-effects of this mechanism that can be interpreted as endorphin-deprivation symptoms; (4) shortly after parturition, placentophagy could play an adaptive role in decreasing the negative side-effects of foetal manipulation; (5) later, breast-feeding induced endorphin excretion of the maternal pituitary saves mother from further deprivation symptoms. These predictions appear to be supported by empirical data.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphin

Deal in the womb: Fetal opiates, parent-offspring conflict, and the future of midwifery
Pe´ter Apari a, Lajos Ro´zsa
Medical Hypotheses (2006) 67, 1189–1194
http://www.zoologia.hu/list/apari_rozsa.pdf
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 01:06:04 AM by Naf1 »

jon

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 05:30:07 PM »
it was my mother's fault afterall
now i understand my addiction to big tits.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 05:37:16 PM by jon »

TooCold

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 08:15:27 PM »
On wikipedia about RB-101:

"A significant advantage of inhibiting the breakdown of endogenous opioid peptides rather than stimulating opioid receptors with exogenous drugs is that the levels of opioid peptides are only increased slightly from natural levels, thus avoiding overstimulation and downregulation of the opioid receptors. This means that even when RB-101 is used in high doses for extended periods of time, there is no development of dependence on the drug or tolerance to its analgesic effects.[12][13]  Consequently even though RB-101 is able to produce potent analgesic effects via the opioid system, it is unlikely to be addictive.[14]"

So you can get an opiate high without addiction tolerance or respiratory depression. Sounds great to me.

Tsathoggua

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 08:42:22 PM »
I have a distinct feeling that thymoquinone, present in the seeds of Nigella sativa (love in a mist, AKA those tiny black seeds you find on naan or pitta bread, AKA black seed, AKA black onion seed and a whole host of other synonyms), along with GABAergic activity, is an enkephalinase inhibitor, it is known to suppress withdrawal symptoms in rats made dependent on morphine, and to potentiate opiates (I can attest to this myself)

Tolerance to the seed or thymoquinone does not cause tolerance to traditional opioids, although the inverse is not true, that is, if you are tolerant to morphine/codeine/pethidine etc you will have some tolerance to thymoquinone.

Possibly some endocannabinoid stuff going on in there, wouldn't surprise me, and definately GABAergic effects of some sort, that much is known of it, not surprising at all IMO looking at its structure and how closely it resembles propofol.
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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 10:13:03 PM »
"Pharmacological properties of acetorphan, a parenterally active "enkephalinase" inhibitor

JM Lecomte, J Costentin, A Vlaiculescu, P Chaillet, H Marcais-Collado, C Llorens-Cortes, M Leboyer and JC Schwartz

Acetorphan, i.e. N-[(R,S)-3-acetylmercapto-2-benzylpropanoyl]-glycine, benzyl ester, is a lipophilic derivative of Thiorphan, a potent inhibitor of "enkephalinase" (EC 3.4.24.11). On purified enkephalinase its inhibitory potency was approximately 1000 fold less than that of Thiorphan but became close to the latter (nanomolar) when it was incubated previously with cerebral membranes. After parenteral administration to mice and rats (1-10 mg/kg) extensive inhibition of cerebral enkephalinase was shown by the depressed enzyme activity in brain membranes from treated animals and the long-lasting potentiation of analgesia elicited by (D-Ala2,Met5)enkephalin (i.c.v.). This suggests that acetorphan easily enters the brain where the active Thiorphan is released. Parenteral acetorphan elicited a series of naloxone-reversible, opioid-like effects, most of which were described previously with intracerebral Thiorphan or other enkephalinase inhibitors. Antinociceptive effects were found in some tests (hot plate jump and phenylbenzoquinone-induced writhing) but not in others (hot plate licking and tail withdrawal). "Antidepressant" effect was found in the "mouse despair" test and antidiarrhoeal effect in the rat castor oil test. Acetorphan also elicited significant increases and decreases in turnover indexes of serotonin and noradrenaline, respectively, in mouse cerebral cortex. In mice chronically treated with acetorphan, the antinociceptive activity of the compound was not modified markedly and no overt withdrawal symptom could be observed after either treatment interruption or administration of naloxone. " -- http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/237/3/937


Here's the full article for you.

hypnos

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 08:44:38 AM »
I cant  believe I hadn't noticed this thread before!....getting lost in the vespiary

Now,,
Quote
Enkephalinase is an enzyme that lowers the concentration of enkephalins by degrading them. If one prevents the degradation of enkephalins, using an enkephalinase inhibitor, such as lactucopicrin
                Hmmmm.....nice idea...but as you say..."however".....
Quote
However, they will not continue to increase allowing you to get higher and higher. There are some limiting factors such as how much your body can, how effectively the enkephalinase enzymes were inhibited, and also how your body will compensate by adjusting  to the levels of enkephalins present.

  bummer? maybe...Personally I think much "long term tampering" with endogenous neurotransmitters  is, in many cases, if not most, a mistake.

    Ya cant fuck with the most sophisticated bio-reactor in the world, and NOT get "unexpected results"

    Thats  why, IMO, most people take recreational drugs, for the short term effects (i.e. less than a day, usually) and not for the "maintenence" of a drug altered state.....sure people will repeat taking the drug, but usually when the effects have diminished, if not worn off....if you are constantly high, that state fairly quickly "sets the standard" and the autolab in  your body does....stuff, and, lookout :o
   Anyone who has had the opportunity to take, say a lot of cocaine or MDx,knows that with repeated dosing, there comes a point where 'more' wont make any difference to how you feel, at THAT point, anyway,
           it probably will make a bit of difference when you decided to come down/sober up. :'(

   NIce idea tho 8) sort of a junkies dream

  And as for what Naf1 posted;  I mean, what do you think of THAT SHIT eh?
      
   purty kinky if you ask me, I am in concert with these suppositions,, it just makes 'sense' to me :P.... .
   ..but then, my bio-reactor is just  chockas with endogenous drug                                        

    receptors of ALL kinds,, and I reckon, its making 'new' ones everyday ;D neat huh

      In fact, you can alter the levels of your endogenous neurotransmitters significantly, via your diet,,   and I mean, significantly!!!

   this guy  REALLY knows his stuff, check this out,  there's lots more too,,his book, 'How to quit without feeling shit' is very good, good science,, good sense, in my opinion :P

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3xH1ZWEYx8

« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 09:26:48 AM by hypnos »
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Tsathoggua

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 07:25:39 PM »
Bet they would be good for coming off opioids.

I might get a some of the  Nigella essential oil actually, since I am stuck taking DHC for chronic pain, and whilst actually quitting isn't an option, well, not if I want to be able to walk much distance, being forced to take it all the time or feel like shit is not my idea of fun.

Wish I could find some naltrexone though, the ULDN protocol looks like the shit as far as tolerance goes.
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hypnos

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 07:46:36 AM »
Bet they would be good for coming off opioids--not so sure about that...didyou check out that vid?  

what causes your pain swampmon? I have had to deal with a variety of types of chronic pain for some time now and I find different things work for different types of pain,,i.e. I have back/sciatic pain,from a motorcycle accident/s, and pain caused by a neuropathy which is seriously fuckt coz its pain that is initiated by misfiring nerves, so really doesnt have a 'reason', as in a logical cause, I find that the best I can achieve is periods of reduced pain, rather than pain free...
I have had a great deal of experience with allopathic doctors, (Generally, allopathic medicine refers to "the broad category of medical practice that is sometimes called Western medicine, biomedicine, scientific medicine, or modern medicine") and their methods and potions so I may be able to offers some help with alternatives to DHC,

e.g. there is some promise in a new type of therapy that involves putting patients into  ketamine induced unconsciousness for 24hrs, which somehow 'resets' their nervous systems....I look forward to speaking with my neurologist in the near future
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 07:49:00 AM by hypnos »
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TooCold

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 08:29:52 PM »
I know some pain patients find better relief from low doses (at least compared to what some use) of Methadone. I don't know your specfic situation but it could be something for you to look into.

hypnos

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 10:41:16 AM »
thanx for the thought toocold, however, believe me i have tried almost ALL the available analgesics in the past 20years, incliuding doses of methadone up io 290mg per day....the pain I have comes from a variety  of sources including, back pain (the oldest pain) neuropathic pain-which is the most difficult to treat, its a bit like having to deal with the type of pain you feel when your arm falls asleep, and the pain you feel when its waking up, you know there is no reason for  the pain, but it sure is there!!! These days I am on fentanyl patches, which work really well for the pain, but sweating compromises their integrity and contact with the skin-Its only started gettin warm here, and I started using them in winter,so I hope I can work out a way to deal with this problem before it gets too hot-and it gets fuckin hot...40+ aint rare

   thanx for the thought tho, anytime you think my experience in these matters could help you please feel free to pm  me

   I  DO recommend checking out the link above. and the guy knows what he's talking about....he gives very practical ways to get your whole neurottransmitter action happening at its highest levels, which seem to resole mental illnesses and all sorts of behavioural abnormalities....I mean shit! you just have to see HOW MUCH  just eating an apple fucks up someone who is severely allergic to them, in minutes they cant talk are losing their balance and more, it wears off as the apple is metabolised,  
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 07:37:02 PM by hypnos »
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jon

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 12:29:05 AM »
welcome to the chronic pain club at least you can get medicated for your pain here it's a different story.
the dea is so hot on doctors right now you have to be dying before you get proper meds.
i'm in the same boat now it keeps me bedridden and living under constant supervision there's no way i can do anything about it my pain was so severe at one point my blood pressure was 170 over 110 and pulse about 120 for months, and this is after a cerbrovascular accident and renal failure in effect putting me in  jeopardy of another stroke and or kidney failure.
they had me on 3 blood presure meds but they did'nt work because the underlying cause (sever pain) was'nt addressed.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 01:36:02 AM by jon »

Enkidu

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 04:15:48 AM »

Vesp

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 06:32:22 AM »
Nice link. Found it very interesting, and also found out about this drug that seems to be available to everyone but the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racecadotril

It is apparently metabolized into an enkaphalinase inhibitor - however, it doesn't seem like it crosses the BBB. However, I bet it could be modified to do so farily easily.
Or at least its metabolite could be, which is Thiorphan, an organic acid -- likely forming an alkylamide with it could aid in it crossing the blood brain barrier?
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salat

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Re: The Enkephalin Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 10:41:32 AM »
I have a distinct feeling that thymoquinone, present in the seeds of Nigella sativa (love in a mist, AKA those tiny black seeds you find on naan or pitta bread, AKA black seed, AKA black onion seed and a whole host of other synonyms), along with GABAergic activity, is an enkephalinase inhibitor, it is known to suppress withdrawal symptoms in rats made dependent on morphine, and to potentiate opiates (I can attest to this myself)

Tolerance to the seed or thymoquinone does not cause tolerance to traditional opioids, although the inverse is not true, that is, if you are tolerant to morphine/codeine/pethidine etc you will have some tolerance to thymoquinone.

Possibly some endocannabinoid stuff going on in there, wouldn't surprise me, and definately GABAergic effects of some sort, that much is known of it, not surprising at all IMO looking at its structure and how closely it resembles propofol.

Wow what a coincidence I just ordered two lbs of those seeds along with some Tulsi (have to have min $25 for an order and they looked interesting)

Also I recently read that anandamide is used as a signalling device to the fetus - basically the first message from Mom to baby is pot!!


Salat
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 10:49:54 AM by salat »
Salat