Author Topic: good reasonsyou know  (Read 265 times)

hypnos

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good reasonsyou know
« on: April 12, 2010, 05:16:49 AM »
 you know thee is FAR too much derogeuratory shit about mood and mind altering substances----i was wondering if members would be willing to give first hand accounts of "situations" in which the opposite is true...y'kno the GOOD stuff :D ;D 8) thats happenned to those you know of personally

sasha s has a lot to say but he is only one voice and it would be good to print a pile of "positive ??x" stories to share with the world from 'personal observations' :P

not "den of iniquity stuff" but something a touch more "scientific" much the ways a bioassay is compiled...

if this placement/topic/request is out of place sorry vesp-- :-[

ps. yo doucherman lookin forward to your "translations" of 'jonspeak' ;D (he's my favorite japanese alien cyborg consumption unit!! ;)) but a bit hard to understand sometimes :D fun tho!!!(and smart)

cheers all hyppy :)
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poorfish

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 12:14:36 AM »
You want good positive stories about experimentation? or good stories of positive experimental results?
 ???
This is the best I can do, hopefuly its not too far off what you had in mind?

(this is copy-pasted from DF, where I originally had posted it, that's why the writing is so "swim-y")

There's a lengthy explanation of events/setup, and the results summary can be found in the quote-within-quote box at the bottom

Quote
SWIM lives with a monkey who, along with several primate friends, occasionally conducts scientific studies involving the mind-altering effects of psychedelic substances.

On one December 5, 2009, he (henceforth "The Director"), along with 19 other subjects, conducted the following experiment concerning the socio-cultural effects of psilocybin cubensis mushrooms

(excerpt from The Director's personal journal, used with permission):

"20 subjects were chosen for the endeavor, with a deliberate mix of strangers, passing acquaintances, and good friends--with each subject knowing at least 2-3 "good friends" at the event.

Each participant was informed that, in order to participate, he or she would have to bring either a musical instrument or some kind of art supply.  Participants were encouraged to be creative in this vein, and to regard the term "musical instrument" as being extremely loosely defined.


All participants were also instructed to bring (and wear) a funny hat.


The participants were separated (by personal choice) into the following subgroups:

3 participants elected to stand as the "control" group, and spent the evening smoking blunts and witnessing shenanigans

1 participant elected to insulflate small recreational amounts of pure MDMA powder throughout the course of the evening. *This participant had been invited specifically as entertainment, as he gives fantastic lightshows, and is an all-around good guy* -- (henceforth "Participant X")

2 Subjects each ingested approx. 1.7 grams of p. cubensis mushrooms, which had been made into tea. ("Half-zees")

The remaining 14 subjects each ingested 3.5 grams of p.cubensis mushrooms, also tea ("Participants A-L," "Director," and "Host")

The tea was served as a group activity at approx. 9:18pm, immediately followed by a tour of the premises, as given by the the Host (housemate and close friend of the Director), at this time Participant's X and A also insuflated several lines each of pure MDMA.

The effects of the mushrooms became measurable quite quickly, and by approx. 9:40, the experiment was fully under way. The atmosphere was exceedingly jovial, all subjects engaged in ectremely enjoyable "getting-to-know-you" encounters with their lesser-know companions, etc, though to many participants' amusement pronounced difficulty was noticed with regards to traditional communication--some declared "words" themselves to have become meaningless.

At approx. 10:30, Participant B joined Participant's X and A in insuflating another small bump of MDMA powder, and it is at this point that the case of Participant B became worthy of further study.


Participant B is regarded by many of our colleagues to be an actual "genius." He has held a perfect GPA throughout 4 years of college while double majoring in Neuroscience and Comparative Literature, with a minor in Jazz Studies (saxophone player for perhaps 7-8 years).

Though he had taken mushrooms on several occasions, this was Participant B's first encounter with MDMA.

While becoming exceedingly outgoing for the first hour, his topics of conversation were becoming increasingly esoteric, and he instigated several fascinating (but somewhat difficult to follow) discussions amongst his fellow travelers regarding such varying topics as the perfect ambient household temperature, and the (semi)permeable nature of cell walls - he was most fascinated by how human skin can "choose" to 'absorb' some materials/substances and 'reject' others.

Approaching 11:20pm, he, like many of his fellow subjects was struck with an understanding of the futility of language, commenting to another participant "I don't know what to say, words have just become meaningless."

He then spent approx. 45-75minutes playing the saxophone, which he had brought with him, delighting most subjects for at least the first 30min or so, but many became increasing irritated until he stopped, at which point the friendly atmosphere resumed.

By around 12:10am, approx. half of the initial 14 "full-eighth" Participants had also insuflated/ingested various small amounts of MDMA, and were engaging in various bouts of goofiness and extreme relaxation in the various rooms of the establishment, each of which had been set up to provide a different "experience" (exact details of each room are proprietary knowledge of the experiment conductors and as such cannot be revealed here :P).

Following his attempts at communication via music, Participant B requested permission to use the Director's laptop to write some of his thoughts down, and pick some music to listen to.

He chose music well, though he ignored the available iTunes library and began simply calling up songs via youtube. As he typed, several of the other participants joined him in the room, listening to music, talking and smoking a blunt, whereupon an unexpected phenomenon occurred: Participant B was suddenly struck with the idea of using "mixing youtube," but what exactly he meant by that was totally unclear.

He began opening various youtube clips--some famous speeches, slam poetry performances, old jazz/soul/doowop songs, '60 pop-era Beatles, etc--while playing a song with a regular driving beat on iTooons, then using the volume sliders on the varying youtube pages like crossfaders of a scratch mixer--a process Participant J dubbed "reality-jockeying ('Rj'ing')."

A particularly excellent example was his mixing of the low end and beat of the Beatles' "Come Together", the high-end vocals of "Rocky Raccoon," with a jazz pianist's recital in the background, and a reading of the Declaration of Independence fading in and out. It was a spectacular impromptu performance, and Participant B, seemingly in a trance, likewise entranced those participants in the room with what was happening (*SOMETHING NEW* they all concluded).

Participant J repeatedly inquired (rhetorically) when other subjects thought "the Reality Beat'" was going to "drop," finally answering his own query in an explosion of snickers: "Oh, I know: December 12, 2012!"

.............

The following day, the Director found the following document saved to the desktop of his computer: the recorded "thoughts" that Participant B had written down and subsequently emailed to himself, which the word-processing program had automatically saved to the hard drive.

While he had intended to produce a full account of the results of the experiment, the Director found Participant B's concise, single page declaration to be a much better summation of how thoroughly the hopes of the experiment were superceded.

It appears herein unedited, copy/pasted directly from the original word doc:

Quote
THE MUSHROOMS TEA


If you see above, punctuation is useless.

As are words: and punctuation.

They all say you learn and perfect rules so that you may break them. Knowing this, what are rules?

People shouldn’t try to solve, but ponder and progress in understanding.

This will happen if you drink the mushrooms tea. Whose tea?

Let the music and present overcome you with

the muhhhroooms tea (reader please sing this part…what ever melody you choose is perfectly fine.) It’s funny that the reader doesn’t even know the words are music until after reading the passage asking the reader to sing—(is zi the free entity) how much of that thought was because of sound or words or laughter or rhythm or the way my muscles move when they type--.

“It’s an instrument.” He’s talking about the way my fingers move and express against the music. Not anti- the music but against, the way I lean on a tree, comfortable, with perspective.



I could edit this someday, but that would make it something that it’s not. So here it is. Drink up.
MMMMushhhhroooomms Tea makes me freee (I will not end this with a period because nothing ends…Commas till I die , , ,

Periods are crazy. But semi colons make ideas more interrelated and I like connectedness.

He said: “I’m playing drugs like instruments.”

Play everything like an instrument.


Thank you for reading.
[/size]

Soooooo I hope this gigantic post isn't totally different from the responses you were expecting/asking for....

-pfish
And the boy's father was shouting:

Quote
"He doin' the stanky leg! He doin' the stanky leg! Two yearz ol' an' he doin' the stanky leg an' he NOT EVEN TRIPPIN'!!"

The infant was, in fact, doing 'the stanky leg.'

Believe me boy, I seen everything.

Sedit

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 04:08:35 AM »
What needs to be done is not really bioassays so much as flat and to the point experiments. Blood pressure moniters, urine samples, an entire vital signs assay.

Problem is the folks who are able to do this type of studies are either blocked if there results don't fit that of the "mans" or they have no interest in progressing the understanding of drugs on the same level we do. Sasha is one of the very few that understands the deeper nature of these compounds and also has the ability and legal status to perform such work. I honestly feel that when he is lost so to is the war on drugs because they will never allow another to take his place.
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micro

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2011, 10:45:06 PM »
Bloodpressure and stuff like electro cardigogram are not out of reach for normal people. Bodytemperature can be logged too.
The thing is, most amateur means of logging those variables are not constant. Thus the very act of taking up notes might cause some reactions with the test subject.
Bloodpressure meters are cheap, get one and get a tripsitter to take readings at suitable intervals.

Sedit

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 04:46:20 AM »
Yes without a doubt there is alot that could be done with so much ease, I could get a BP moniter under a perscription for sure and have insurance pay for it, theres also glucose moniters without a problem. Ect... ect... The only hard thing would be urin analysis but there is a glimmer of hope in some sort of strip that I seen in the hospital one time that tested pretty much everything! There where about 10 or more small boxes on this strip and each acted sort of like a litmus for various materials in the urine to give an overall status of whats taking place in the persons body.


Like stated however, these are some serious mind altering drugs and even if prepaired before hand, are you really sure you will make sence of whats going on when your freind decideds its time to take you BP or will you panic, raise your BP in the process giving false readings and freakout running out the room because your afraid those aliens are about to anal probe you. OK,  OK thats dramatic but you get the point.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

hypnos

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2011, 06:07:06 AM »
Naa "bioassays's" as such I wasnt looking for..

 What poorfish has posted is EXACTLY what I've been wanting to hear--peoples 'positive reactions'  BECAUSE they took this drug--primarily I was curious about MDMA specifically BUT I would really like to thank Poorfish for IMHO a GREAT POST

 thanx matey
hyppy
"the two things you can give away and never lose, are what you know, and how you feel...."

salat

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Aspergers & MDMA
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2011, 01:06:22 PM »
My husband has Aspergers - a form of autism.  MDMA changed his whole life.  He said it was as if he could look at the landscape of his subconscious from a calm place.  He could understand why he behaved the way he did - he said it's like "Oh is that all?".  It sounds a lot like the experience called yoga nidra.  I suspect that is not how others (non-autistic) perceive this drug based on what I have read.  He said he doesn't understand the warm emotional reputation the drug has.  His drug responses are VERY atypical.  He can take cocaine or adderall and go to sleep right after.

When I found out about my husband's Aspergers, I did some informal research on the web and found that other people with Aspergers had used the drug and it allowed them to more easily socialize.  I suspect social problems in Aspgerers may be caused partly by lack of oxytocin.  MDMA promotes the release of oxytocin.

Oxytocin problems in Aspergers may be genetic or they may be environmental - the child is often born with physical sensitivities that cause them to pull away from their mothers, they also often do not make eye contact like normal infants.  This may mean that their wiring does not get done correctly so they wind up with less oxytocin receptors (the lower oxytocin receptor is from a clinical finding, the rest is my understanding of people and biology).  I have read oxytocin is produced in response to touch and sex.  Guess what they don't get much of.   It is interesting that Temple Grandin created a sort of body squeeze box which helped her calm down as a child.  It allowed her to tolerate a sort of touch but allowed her to control it.  She attributes this device to helping her have warm feelings for her family.

 People with Aspergers also have social problems because of past negative experiences which cause them to have a lot of fear - another problem I have heard MDMA is good for.  One reason Aspergers have social problems is they have difficulty processing multiple streams of sensory inputs simultaneously.  I doubt MDMA helps with that however.

In other words your mileage may vary.

Salat
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 01:08:51 PM by salat »
Salat

Vesp

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 07:59:34 PM »
Is your husband left handed?
Aspergers is most common in males, as is being left handed. They both have to do with prenatal programming while in the womb, I believe. The whomb will often have higher levels of testosterone for some reason or another and it causes certain parts of the brain to develop larger than they would otherwise. Than when they are adults, they tend to have more estrogen levels than other males.
Scientists, tend to have higher estrogen levels than non-scientists and are more likely to be high functioning aspergers or something like that...

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salat

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 03:19:05 AM »
That is one of the theories of it, but it also seems to be genetic with certain abnormalities noted.  He thinks in pictures.  Temple Grandin wrote a book of that title and it is amazing how she can design things by thinking through them visually.  My husband does that also- he used to write computer programs and had 4 dimensional models of them in his mind.  I can't imagine doing that.

They tend to be very single minded which allows them to flourish in science/math careers where intense focus is necessary.  There are a host of sensory processing problems that really blow your mind when you think about them.  Some of the lower functioning autistics live in a world where sound, sight, touch etc are all mixed up.

Salat
Salat

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 12:29:32 PM »
Monitoring devices are not necessarily unavailable to the general public.  Years ago, while dumpster diving, I found a battery-powered blood pressure monitor behind a local pharmacy (a major chain-store, though) - Someone hit the package with a boxcutter while opening a case, so into the write-off pile it went.  After going back to the store for a few other things, I found that it was an over the counter item, and reasonably priced at that.

ECG's and EEG's are rather simple technologically - they're basically just well-placed antennae connected to low-noise, high-gain amplifiers - The problem comes in interpreting the results.  The guys at the open-eeg project (google it) have done some rather impressive things with off-the-shelf components and open source software.

Blood-sugar monitoring is likewise simple - Although technically considered a medical device, and therefore difficult to obtain without a prescription, blood glucose monitors are essentially the same as cel-phones...  You don't need to be a diabetic to get one, but they're a hell of a lot cheaper if you are - You can legally obtain one for shits and giggles, but be prepared to pay a non-insured price for it.  Test strips are likewise easy to obtain.  On the same hand, so are the multipurpose urine dip-strips used to test for kidney functionality.

Many other tests can likely be done by the amateur - Reliability of the equipment is not the main concern, rather purchased or assembled, but rather the competence of the user.  I can psych myself into giving a wide range of blood pressure and pulse readings in a single sitting - Sure, they're all readings, but none of them are relevant unless I know what I'm looking at...

I'd say a few things about experiences with a handful of things, but the focus of the thread seems to have shifted from the psychological to the physiological - Monitoring equipment is NOT out of reach, although using it properly will take some effort.

hypnos

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2011, 04:37:47 AM »
yeah this thread was supposed to be about , peoples "positive experiences" to which, salat, your post is Exactly what I want to hear,, 
 thank you
  hyppy
"the two things you can give away and never lose, are what you know, and how you feel...."

beanhead

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Re: good reasonsyou know
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 03:37:30 PM »
That is one of the theories of it, but it also seems to be genetic with certain abnormalities noted.  He thinks in pictures.  Temple Grandin wrote a book of that title and it is amazing how she can design things by thinking through them visually.  My husband does that also- he used to write computer programs and had 4 dimensional models of them in his mind.  I can't imagine doing that.

They tend to be very single minded which allows them to flourish in science/math careers where intense focus is necessary.  There are a host of sensory processing problems that really blow your mind when you think about them.  Some of the lower functioning autistics live in a world where sound, sight, touch etc are all mixed up.

Salat

That's about the same here alongside the atypical drug responses and (diminished) emotional response (though that is most probably because of smoking weed in excess which just blands you out eventually), first I thought it was aspergers but according to psychological tests i'm just gifted (cursed) .

Lovely that you can get along with eachother eventhough there is a vast diffirent mindset.

Is he prone to lower dosages (eg. Already able to tell the drug is working whilst others don't even feel it) ?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 04:02:46 PM by beanhead »