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Seperation of 2-phenylpropanal from P2P
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TMO

Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 1
53.48 Points

Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:18 am
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"It is not possible to effectively separate 2-phenylpropanal (bp 222°C/760mmHg) from phenyl-2-propanone (bp 214°C/760mmHg) through simple distillation and certainly not via vacuum distillation as the boiling points are too close. Fractional distillation could theoretically be used to separate them, but the size of the column that would have to be used makes that option impractical. A good idea for separating a mixture of the two is to oxidize the mixture with a mild oxidant which won't affect the P2P, but which will oxidize the aldehyde to 2-phenylpropionic acid. The acid can then be separated from the ketone by dissolving the mixture in a non-polar solvent and washing the solution with dilute sodium hydroxide. The P2P stays in the organic layer, which is then dried over MgSO4, the solvent removed under vacuum and the residue vacuum distilled to give pure P2P."

My question is can anyone recommend some oxidants to use for this seperation, preferably availible OTC? Would 30% H2O2 work with good stirring?
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joe_aldehyde
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 310
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Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:33 pm
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i guess H2O2 is just too strong. today i learned that bromine in water can safely oxidize aldehydes to acids, not touching secondary alcohols or ketones.
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Elementary

Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 100
Location: UK
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:11 pm
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Can use not be made of the bisulphite addition compound made with the ketone ?

I 've always been under the impression that most methyl ketones are resistant to further oxidisation with chromic acid. Oxidation of ketones requires breaking of carbon-carbon bonds and takes place only under vigorous conditions.
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joe_aldehyde
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:30 pm
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bisulfites react much better with aldehydes than ketones, so separation should be possible.
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java
Consumer
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 736
Location: The Mexican Republic
21796.14 Points

Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:10 pm
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here are some comments on the subject.....java

Quote:
To separate 2-phenylpropanal from phenyl-2-propanone you first need to oxidize the 2-phenylpropanal to 2-phenylpropanoic acid (perhaps with basic potassium permanganate or dilute potassium dichromate), then you can wash it away with aqueous base


....as read from Post 409076 (Rhodium: "Read up some more first, you are confusing a...", Stimulants)




Quote:


3_4_BumbleBee
(Stranger)
08-29-04 11:01
No 528094
Separation of P2P/2-Phenylpropanal. wich Oxidant?

Swibb did the rearrangement of Hydratropic Aldehyde to P2P with H2SO4. Now he wants to seperate the P2P from the 2PP.
Which oxidant should he use for the oxydation of the aldehyde to phenylpropanoic acid? and in wich manner is the oxidation done?
i would suggest to use potassium permanganate, because its OTC here. the reaction mixture is ca 80ml in 500 ml dietylether as solvent, how much oxidant will be needed? is it possible to "over-oxidize"?



java
(Hive Addict)
08-29-04 11:59
No 528101
Hydrotropic Aldehyde to...... P2P ....Oxidation ?

Since the oxidant won't affect the P2P it doesn't matter , but then read for yourself and be convinced....java

Post 456420 (java: "RE: Hydrotropic Aldehyde....", Methods Discourse)


https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phenylacetone.html
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.......
-Emiliano Zapata-



yei
(Newbee)
09-07-04 23:04
No 530172
Not exactly true

KMnO4 is potent stuff. Use with care, or it probably will eat up your P2P.

Probably just use it neutral and cold. You will know it's done oxidizing when the color of the solution stays pink.
Don't trust what I say, I don't know anything



3_4_BumbleBee
(Stranger)
09-09-04 21:19
No 530513
We will try it next weekend!

We will try it next weekend! but i don¥t know how this oxidation will be done. 2PP and P2P are not water soluble both. kmno4 is....
will i have to make an aqueous KMnO4 solution and shake it in a separatory funnel for a while with the P2P-mixture until the violet color of the oxidizer disappears in the aqueous layer, add again KMnO4 solution, and so on???
the acid wich then appears is water-soluble and is removed so at the same moment. this would be my idea how this oxidation is done. or am i wrong?
BB
A King is the Man, if he dreams; a Beggar if he thinks!
(Friedrich Hˆlderlin)



Bandil
(The Archetypical "Good Guy")
09-09-04 22:32
No 530520
Just tried the reaction myself.

Just tried the reaction myself. Havn't measured yields yet, but will do so in the course of the weekend and make a writeup correspondingly.

Anyhow, you need to slighty alter your procedure. Simply extracting with water wont do the trick. Try this procedure:

- Wash the ether extracts with aq. sodium bicarbonate to remove acid traces (an acidic environment could cause over oxidation of the P2P).

- Titrate the cold ether phase with saturated KMnO4 solution. Cool the ether / water phase in an ice bath while dripping in the permanganate. This prevents over oxidation.

- Once a purple color remains, the solution is poured into a sep funnel. Let it separate for a few hours. The Mn(IV) precipitate will settle at the bottom as brown sludge. The ether phase is floating on top as a quite "tanned" phase. Isolate the ether.

- Wash the ether phase with a dilute solution of NaOH in water. This converts the acid to the salt, which is water soluble. Drain of the water phase and wash the ether once more with pure water.

- Work up as usuall (dry ether, strip and distill).

Regards
Bandil
Only one way leads to Valhalla - Running amok with TOTAL VIKING POWER
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