PMK synth

valmont · Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:16 am

SWIM came across a product in china that was unreleased with no CAS number which was an intermediate for piperonyl methyl ketone. Apparently it was a solid and their was a certain procedure u need to do with costic soda and HCL acid to give u 99.9% transparent PMK.

has anyone even heard of such a thing? i think an underground chemist had invented it. the intermediate had epoxypropinate in the title from what SWIM can remember. Question

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

it probably was the bisulfite adduct or the sodium iodide adduct. could also have been the epoxide, but there is no such thing as an epoxypropinate.

fcknut · Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:30 pm

valmont · Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:43 pm

yes, it was epoxypropionate with 3-4 MDP methyl b4 it i think.... but it was an intermediate that could not be found anywhere else. im assuming this underground chemist had made it, so my question is if anyone had heard of such a thing and/or why havnt others tried to patent such intermediates for PMK

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

i don't see how one would go from an epoxide acid to a ketone. hydrolysis of the epoxide occurs first, giving a glycol or an alcohol, by dehydration giving a benzylic ketone or an a,b-unsaturated acid (ester).

Lego · Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:39 pm

Under anhydrous conditions no hydrolysis will occur.
Epoxides are isomeric to ketones
Additon of a lewis acid opens the epoxide and will give a stabilised benzylic cation which rearranges to the ketone. Plenty of examples in text books....

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

well, lego - to a benzylic ketone, therefor useless. and with the carboxylate or ester group, thats still another story.

Lego · Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:37 pm

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

i can very well see your point (excuse me, i'm just a novice in OC) - i always thought that the most conjugated series of double bonds is responsible for the selectivity towards the product - thats the case for the benzylic ketone.

valmont · Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:50 am

so im guessing the intermediate title wasnt correct then? what i never understood was how they came about making the intermediate for the Pmk

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

why don't you go about finding out what the real intermediate compound name was, valmont?

valmont · Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:08 pm

3,4 (methlenedioxy phenyl) methyl epoxypropionate.. i think but anyway could something be made possibly?? as in an intermediate for PMK

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

from what i know, it is not a suitable intermediate for PMK.

valmont · Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:33 am

thanks joe Smile

any thoughts on what is a suitable or the most suitable intermediate for PMK?

it would be much appreciated thanks

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

go have a look at the hive files...intermediates are mostly made from watched precursors. i don't know of any intermediates that are commercially available and unwatched.