Litmus test for securing lab testing method.....

java · Consumer

I know that having a way to test our intermediates and finish synthesis would be of great value to most members . So in order to find what tests would produce the most information at a reasonable price I have run this poll.

Imagine a place were we can send our samples coded only with 8 number digit , either with fed ex or whatever is cheaper, from anywere in the world and get your results by logging on to the lab's page and look up your number and the results.

The price would have to be fair as we have to pay for shipment and through pay-pal for the cost of the tests. So first lets find out what test would be more benedicial , if not listed please add on .......java

Next poll what would be a fair price for each test?

java · Consumer

Although the poll will run 10days , I have ran the same question at other forums and have found that the test that interests most is the GC and the mass spectroscopy. I will find out the cost of the two tests and the turn around time and method of reporting ,such as it remains annonymous.......however I do need some input from this forums to know what if any interesest in having a access to lab testing of your intermediates and finish project for accuracy and purity.....java

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Definitely interested!! Cool

(GC/MS - gives mostly useable results, as long as you know roughly what you're looking for)

Vitriodor · Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:35 am

Without reference materials I wouldn´t trust on a chromatography technique alone. Mass spectrometry definately will tell which compounds are in your sample. Nowadays libraries full of mass spectra are available, especially for drug related compounds. And if you don´t have one of these databases there is plenty of literature describing mass spectrometric data of drugs.

Vit

methyl_ethyl · Riedel De Haen

Large amount of votes for GC, this is great, small amount of votes for Spectroscopy, this is bad.

Couple the two together and we can get somewhere. I have an Agilent GC that has been collecting dust for ~4years that was used for some off the wall Microbial identification or some such nonsense, IMO with out a mass spectrometer the GC is useless for what we are after. I have been trying to get a mass spec for some time now, but have a hard time justifying the purchase Crying or Very sad

So I think two more options should be added, GC/MS and LC/MS and their more precise kin (LC/MS/MS for example)

When I think of Spectroscopy in itself I think of NMR, or even Spectrophotometric analysis.

just_my_thoughts,

m_e

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Then my vote goes to GC/MS!

I think most of us five who voted for GC also meant MS too - without it its almost useless of course..

Vitriodor · Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:04 am

no votes for HPLC? A lot of polar, water soluble drugs are difficult to analyze with GC. If you look in drug analysis literature the ratio of GC to LC usage is about 1 to 1 nowadays. Pharmaceutical companies use LC/MS (and as methyl_ethyl correctly mentioned: LC/MS/MS) a lot. It is their workhorse.... But I guess most of the voters are familar with GC and less with LC(/MS) techniques. Besides, the interpretation of (LC) mass spectra is more difficult due to the different nature of the ionization processes. GC/MS spectra are standardized (70eV electron impact) whereas LC/MS aren´t (all kind of voltage settings, solvent effects).

Furthermore, if I would have to choose between GC or LC I definately would choose GC based on practical experience :-p.

Guest · Wed May 18, 2005 11:21 am

This is a great idea Java, this ties in nicely with our push towards documenting and doing actual reactions, that we all agree on,
With the way drugs are and there numerous impurities, and all the media on deaths from such substances, I can't help but think that this is an essential service,

How much does the chepaes of these machine cost, like the ones that they have at uni, 100k? maybee

But think about he possibilties, and international drug testing facility located in a law abiding countrym
This is something definately to investigate, and possibly do, whther oursouced, or eventually owned by a cooperative of sorts, and run as a business,

Sounds like it has alot of potential, I will make some enquiries,

Did you find any places that do it yet?

syn

java · Consumer

The lab I have been investigating has labs in australia, europe and the U.S. and this is a list of the GC/Mass spectroscopy the offer........

------------
Mass Spectrometry Labs ICP/MS LC/MS
GC/MS, GC/MS/MS GC/ICP/MS LC/MS/MS
Hi Res GC/MS Tandem MS/MS DCI/MS
HRGC/FI/MS Quadrupole GC/MS LSI/MS
GC/MS/SIM/HR, SIMS Headspace GC/MS More..
.
Mass Spectrometry Solutions:

Mass Spectrometry (MS)
High Resolution Mass Spectrometry (HRMS)
Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry
Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP/MS, ICP-MS)
Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS, LC-MS)
Tandem Mass Spectrometry (MS/MS, MS-MS)
Field Desorption Mass Spectrometry (DCI/MS)
Liquid Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry (LSI/MS)
Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry (SIMS)
And more...

HR/GC/FI/MS:
High Resolution Gas Chromatography Field Ionisation Mass Spectrometry.

Quadrupole GC/MS
Chemical ionisation analysis of thermally labile compounds. Identification of unknowns in different matrices, including water, kerosene, fuel oil, polymers.

Headspace, HR/GC/HRMS
High resolution gas chromatography mass spectrometry, offering accurate mass determinations and identifications of unknown volatiles in a wide variety of different matrices. Headspace analysis of volatiles in matrices such as water, soils and fuel oils. Derivatisation and analysis of polar compounds.

High Resolution GCMS:
High resolution magnetic sector Micromass GC/MS analyses at 10,000 mass determination resolution.

GCMS Headspace Analyses:
Quadrupole GC/MS instrument with trap headspace sampler.

GCMS Chemical Ionisation:
Quadrupole GC/MS instrument with chemical ionisation (CI) facilities.

LC/MS, LC/MS/MS:
Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry.

High Resolution Thermal desorption
(HRGC/HRMS) Analysis of polymer additives without the need for extraction, and for volatiles in solid matrices such as activated carbon and catalysts.

ICP/MS:
Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry, offering trace (ppb ppm) and ultra-trace (ppt ppb) elemental analysis.

GC/ICP/MS:
Gas Chromatography Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry offers lower limits of detection for metal analysis, molecular speciation and water sample analysis.
------------------------------------------------

Now for the specific purpose of chemistry research hobbyist of the above which test would be the most sensible without paying for more than what is needed......for those with the knowledge , please give some feed back so this testing can be narrowed down and pricing and availability can be a done thing.......java

Vitriodor · Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:13 am

Java, your question is difficult to answer. It depends on what you want to know. Are you interested in the organic and/or inorganic composition of your product? Is your product very polar or not, is it (thermally) stable, are you dealing with small or large molecules? Is it volatile, can it be brought into the gas phase, what is the matrix in which it is? In which solvents can it be dissolved?

For the organic composition of most of the drugs I would say GC/MS and/or LC/MS is OK. When mass spectral information alone is not enough for identification, one could use chemical ionisation (CI) as well, which is suitable for molecular mass determination of a lot of compounds.

If you want to know whether trace elements of inorganic materials are present you should use ICP-MS (but other non-MS based techniques are available as well).

Vit

loki · guinea pig

i know of a lab in australia which runs a gcms which its main focus is on identifying plant chemicals, primarily psychoactives.