Author Topic: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)  (Read 215 times)

drone1240

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Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« on: May 29, 2010, 08:11:21 PM »
                                              Preparation of chloroform as follows:


                              2 CH3COCH3 + 6  Ca(OCL) > 2CHCL3 + (CH3COO)  2Ca + 2 Ca (OH)2 + 3 CaCl2

500mls of H2O was added in small quantities to 200grms of Calcium Hypochlorite and mashed and stirred into milky suspension. Slurry was poured into a 1LRB and set up for reflux.

88mls of acetone was poured through the top of the condenser in 7 to 10 ml increments and a vigorous boiling started. Flask was shaken to mix acetone than dipped in ice water bath to control reaction. They weren’t lying when they said this was an exothermic reaction. When the reaction slowed it was taken out of ice bath and warmed in hot water bath to finish the halogenation.

Flask was put back in ice water bath and the set up was changed to allow a simple distillation. Temperature started to rise and something came over at 41 *C  Temp went up to 50* C  than back down to 42* C   WTF!  Referred back to distillation notes and adjusted the thermometer bulb to sit a tad lower than bottom of the side arm and waited for condensate to appear on bulb. Still had issues on temperature not rising fast enough so I wrapped three welding gloves around the still pot and head. Eureka the temp went up to 61* C,  fairly quickly! The temperature was actually controlled by removing a welding glove or two than putting them back to keep at 61*C.

In retrospect I don’t think the temp of still head was important as I made it out to be. The chloroform was on the bottom were the heat was and it was coming over well before the top of still head was at the correct b.p temperature. That is why I had something come over at 41*C.

The contents of the receiver flask were poured in a beaker and measured. 38mls of the theoretical 40ml were collected and sniffed. After I woke up….  just  joking!!!!  Seeing if yall are still with me. I noticed that there were a few drops of water on top of the chloroform.

Sample was poured into sep funnel and a equal volume of dilute NaOH was added and shook.  A emulsion was created and a buddy of mine suggested NaCl to break the emulsion. As a last ditch effort I added NaCl and put it in sample jar before heading off to bar. This morning the sample had separated and the chloroform was sitting on top.
I put the contents back in sep funnel and let the lye water out and was left with about 27ml of less than ACS grade chloroform.

I grew as a chemist from going through the motions of this easy but enjoyable reaction. I already knew I could do it well before I did, but the experience gained was very valuable to me. I look forward to posting my next experiment. Thank you for taking the time to read fellas.   D

« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 06:35:14 PM by Enkidu »
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....

marakov

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 11:01:54 PM »
Preparation of Chloroform.

This may help.

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/chloroform.html

NaCl is magic for separating emulsions and for increasing yields when extracting something that is nonpolar from a polar solvent. Ultrasonication is also for this emulsion. It is more complicated then that but that the start of learning it.

drone1240

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2010, 06:17:37 PM »
I appreciate it Marakov. Glad to make your acquaintance as well, I think you will like this group. I will start learning about ultrasonication.
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....

marakov

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2010, 11:59:44 PM »
I appreciate it Marakov. Glad to make your acquaintance as well, I think you will like this group. I will start learning about ultrasonication.

You may find this funny:

Popeye used a dildo to vibrate the emulsion apart!

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/popeye/popeye.dildos.txt



"Subject: Dildo's and SepFunnels


Patience is a virtue in chemistry and life BUT when you find yourself
gnawing on the skulls of your incarcerated ancestors in a rented crank oil
stinking garage space, waiting for the colloidal suspensions, or the
troublesome undocumented third middle layer to debubblfy...patience may not
be all that practical.

I have found that if you trim the head of a latex, plug in dildo to replace
the stopper on your sep funnel and give it the old VIBE, it will speed the
seperation as well as the breaking up of aforementioned sludgelayers, and
save you some time. Don't use some sort of mega-pussy eyeball shaker,
designed for the elite-frigid class..you don't want to get into the area of
agitation or orgasmic chemistry, just aid settling.   Experiment a bit and
I think you may find this "TIP" useful.

Bone Apertif



                                        -POPeye"

Vesp

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2010, 12:07:53 AM »
Also, have you seen this on the forum?
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,360.0.html

... essentially the same thing here: http://127.0.0.1/Douchermann/orgysynpages/chloroform.html

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salat

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2010, 12:45:52 AM »
I'm a newbie, but when I looked at the picture I noticed a lot of bare wire - is that heating wire?  And is that a threat to glassware?  I was looking up how to cut bottles and one of the techniques involved using hot wire.  Granted they scored the glass first, but I have been hesitant to us any wire anywhere on my glassware just in case.  Does it pose a risk of overheating or cooling some portion of the glass?  I was using long pipe cleaners to wrap my insulation on condensors and stopped because of this concern.  Just wondering...

salat
Salat

Sedit

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2010, 02:43:37 AM »
That wire is just taking the place of a clamp I believe.

Quote
You may find this funny:

Popeye used a dildo to vibrate the emulsion apart!

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/popeye/popeye.dildos.txt

These work very well for breaking up emulsions. But one may want to graduate by making a very simple device to do essentialy the same thing.
You could either hook an AC wall adaptor to an old speaker and make a vibrating plate but these can be annoying. A better approch is to take a small motor and put an unbalanced weight on it. Attach a small rheostat to the motor and you have a vibrating plate at a varity of frequencys. Using a small highspeed motor you can reach Ultrasonic frequencys or at the very lest close to them with ease.

PS: for the love of god make sure your flask is held down somehow because it WILL walk away.... I think its how the egyptions moved 10 ton blocks honestly but Im strange...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 02:45:13 AM by Sedit »
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2010, 03:16:53 AM »
One might also be able to use the vibrations that come from a fish air bubbler? They have an electromagnet in them that vibrates a membrane to pump air.
Might be the most convenient.
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salat

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2010, 07:19:44 AM »
I was wondering if there's anything useful in the ultrasonic jewelry cleaners.  I looked up the frequency - think it was like under 350 somethings (can't remember units worth a damn)

Partner uses small hand held massage vibrator to tamp down stuff in capsules.

salat
Salat

Vesp

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2010, 07:35:52 AM »
I am pretty sure they have a use, I remember douchermann talking about using one to help get a grignard, I believe? started.
Not totally sure if they are useful, but I know they have been considered and mentioned by a few people.
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drone1240

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2010, 04:42:53 PM »
I appreciate it Marakov. Glad to make your acquaintance as well, I think you will like this group. I will start learning about ultrasonication.

You may find this funny:

Popeye used a dildo to vibrate the emulsion apart!



Believe me I do. Remember what mama used to say about using things for stuff that they were not intended for. That they could put someones eye out. I think this is what she meant...


@salat.The wire is welding wire. i would of shown a bigger picture but didn't want to get clowned for having a bunch of water on the table were the hose had fell off. I am sure it is a danger to the glass. i am too, the experiment before last I stepped on a 500ml 24/40 addition funnel that get this, I wasn't even using it. I learned a valuable lesson. Funding is a limiting factor for what I can and cannot do, i don't see Bayer or Proctor scooping me up and putting me in a think tank.
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....

marakov

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Re: Technique Experiment
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2010, 05:31:20 PM »
I was wondering if there's anything useful in the ultrasonic jewelry cleaners.  I looked up the frequency - think it was like under 350 somethings (can't remember units worth a damn)

Partner uses small hand held massage vibrator to tamp down stuff in capsules.

salat

Professional jewellery cleaner uses ultrasound that is strong enough to work for modified Grignard reactions. They can even be done with wet ether but yield will suffer.
There is always the old trick of starting a test tube and then pouring slowly into larger Grignard reaction and then into even larger Grignard vessel so that a very large batch may be done at once. It is much easier to start a small Grignard reaction than a larger one.

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/grignard.wet.html

"Grignard Reactions in "Wet" Ether

David H. Smith
J. Chem. Ed. 76(10) 1427-8 (1999)

Students can run Grignard reactions in regular laboratory grade ether and in equipment that has not been specially dried. The reaction begins within one minute and the product alcohol is ready for assay in one hour. This technique, which requires only the simplest of glassware and a low-power ultrasonic laboratory cleaner, is so robust that it deserves wider use. Because no particular care is needed to dry either the solvent or the equipment, large savings in time result for instructors and students.

What Are the Limits of This Procedure?

A reaction was performed using diethyl ether that had been shaken with water, the mixture then being allowed to stand for one hour. The ether was so wet that 1-bromobutane formed a cloudy mixture when it was added. The reaction of this mixture with magnesium proceeded satisfactorily after sonication for about 50 min. The yield of product alcohol was about 50% (GC)."

I have tried to find examples of this in scientific reference of ultrasound in Grignard but have been unable to. Considering toluene, ether, powder bleach, hydrochloric acid, magnesium metal and dry ice is available, I suspect the only thing that has prevented this becoming widespread is the difficulty of ensuring water free reaction.

With ultrasound if correct, than water free is not as essential any more.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 05:36:18 PM by marakov »

salat

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Re: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2010, 01:01:43 AM »
Hmmm what about ultrasonic vaporizors etc?  Also my late husband was a radio buff, we've got a frequency generator somewhere - I wonder if it can generate ultrasound.

You know I don't think my partner and I will ever run out of curiousities to explore.

Thanks for the info - I just wanted to be sure my fears regarding wire and glass were well founded.

Don't feel too bad about the glass we all have our days - I blew a soxhlet condenser because I was trying to get a little tiny particle out from one of the bulbs (the condenser not the soxhlet tube)

salat
Salat

marakov

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Re: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2010, 03:10:24 AM »
I do not believe ultrasonic vapouriser will work except to use for sublime of narrow chemicals category such as water or propylene glycol or similar.

Are you know about this? Some use vapouriser and some use nichrome wire for heating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette

Dongle

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Re: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2010, 05:42:05 AM »
What is the practical danger of phosgene formation from this reaction?

Dongle

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Re: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2010, 05:46:48 AM »
As a side note, deep inhalations of chloroform can be deadly. When it was used as an anasthetic, the preponderance of deaths were in younger, healthy people. It was later learned that they would be the ones must resistant to inhale and would, after holding out, finally breath it in with a larger than normal breath. Bang - dead.

devongrrl

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Re: Technique Experiment (Preparation of chloroform by the haloform rxn)
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2010, 09:00:04 AM »

I wonder if you've seen this vid on YT

hxxp://www.youtube.com/user/ytmachx#p/u/17/Wh_7fjHV_BY