Author Topic: Giant MDMA crystals  (Read 3069 times)

Sedit

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2011, 07:14:58 AM »
Not that I ever have or ever would since its illegal and what not but I would think that if I ever made MDMA*HCl from something like a reductive amination, even being the crystal growing fool that I am(I love growing any crystals regarless of what it is) I don't think I would ever see anything but maybe 1mm at best of crystals from MDMA salt. I would expect to see a slightly glittery dust settle after gassing a non polar extract of post reaction mix. I would also expect to see that even after recrystalization of that "dust" and an extremely slow cool down period from a mixture of H2O, MeOH, and Acetone that it would still not crystalize into anything of importance.

Its all theory but if I ever did decide to make MDMA that would be what I would expect a post reaction purification to look like.
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atara

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2011, 09:51:03 AM »
I actually don't know shit-all about this... but shouldn't the forming the tartrate salt allow slightly larger crystals to form? I mean, first, it's hard to crystallize phenethylamine hydrochlorides period, and second tartrate will separate the enantiomers to some extent.

It should be noted that if your crystals are larger than two millimeters they're basically large enough to be sold as "shard" and that chirally pure MDMA tends to lack the magic of the racemate. Caveat emptor!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 09:52:55 AM by atara »

overunity33

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2011, 11:23:27 PM »
Slow reX from methanol will make rice grain sized crystals at best.  Resolving with tartaric acid is more complex then forming the hcl salt, you have to take into account the different solubilities and crash one of them out then either use it as a tartaric salt or re freebase.  I agree with atara, even tho literature says that one isomer tends to be biologically inactive shulgin says you need both for the real magic, even tho one produces a much smaller effect.  You can make huge racemic shards by doing an h2o/acetone reX, theres some pics on the WD eye candy thread.

Sedit

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2011, 11:31:48 PM »
  You can make huge racemic shards by doing an h2o/acetone reX, theres some pics on the WD eye candy thread.

I can also make large crystals of Sodium Sulfate and tell people that its MDMA or MA yet that don't change the fact that its not. I have seen more then a couple pictures in the Eye candy thread that I am sure are either sodium or Magnesium Sulfate.
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overunity33

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2011, 03:42:14 AM »
Sedit: I understand in theory you should not be able to produce large shards out of racemic mdx but as you know theory and practice are two totally different things.  And you're right, some of those pictures are simple compounds like sodium sulfate but nothing on that thread is mislabelled.  Are you denying there are pictures of large mdx shards crystalized from acetone/h2o on that thread, because last I checked there are two very similar sets of pictures from two different authors using the same technique.

meme

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2011, 03:48:08 AM »
I have personally seen and know others who have also seen large crystals of racemate mdma hcl.

Despite being 100% sure of my experience, I am hesitant to admit it;  I do NOT like contradicting some of the genius minds (QD) who have stated otherwise.

However, fact is fact.  The shit looks just like quartz, big double terminated crystals weighed in grams/ oz not in mg.

WazOne

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2011, 06:05:26 AM »
yes have seen what meme states over at the old wd board. also seen as a big clear blob like glue. Maybe java can tune in here.

psychexplorer

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2011, 07:36:32 AM »
The great thing about great science is its reproducibility.

If the racemate can form large crystals then a simple method for doing should be published. Confirmation will be straightforward.

letters

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2011, 10:36:36 AM »
not sure about mdma, but when working with amph/meth it is possible to generate non transparent single block of the salt.
you do this by placing your salt in a flexible silicone mold, place mold+salt in the oven, and set oven temp to just above the melting point of the salt. Be careful since these tend to start to vaporize quite closely to the melting point. Once all the salt is melted you turn off the oven and let it cool down to room temp.
When it has cooled down you can push the newly formed "cast" out of the flexible silicone mold and have in your hands a single block of the salt.
You can either make your own mold, or buy ready made molds from the cooking store. With (distilled) alkylated amphetamine hcl salt, this makes pure white, non transparent, single blocks of the whole amount.
Not sure how this would classify as a crystal. In essence you melt the tiny crystals that make up the powdery salt and then resolidify all together.
I believe that since heat transfer of the salts is not so good, once it starts to cool, like ice cubes, the extremities cool down faster and solidify faster. This probably makes for the actual solidification rather then crystallization.  (<- not sure this last sentence represents good science, i need to brush up on my solid phase physics and not be stoned to decide)
It is possible I believe to generate clear rocks of this type. But, probably would require some equipment and capabilities (eliminating all trapped air inside the salt, cooling down to room temp very slowly at a fixed gradient, possibly doing a few cycles of melting/solidifying with different temp gradients, and most importantly keeping the height of the molten salt to a minimum so as to have a large surface area relative to the volume).
If you make your own molds you can have a small imprint on the bottom of the mold to add a signature to the block.
Dont know how this would work for mdma, the fragile dioxymethylene ring might not like that heating too much.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 10:52:06 AM by letters »

sassa

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2011, 11:14:59 PM »
   Hello again everybody.Sorry about my english.It´s bad like always!
Certeanly,I have a lot of interest on re-open this old thread,because it´s a problem i´m struggling with it at this moment.
   I want to talk about LACTOSE.
   It´s true that in Netherlands,the crystal mdma produced it´s in form of very big chunk like golf balls with translucid apearence,like ambar-quartz rocks.I Have  proved that racemic mdma and mda with evaporation  from water or alcohol,never makes crystals bigger than 1 cm,beatifull but not big rocks.
  So,how they do this chunks?
  
I have read that principal adulterant/filler  on Netherlands mdma on crystal form it´s Lactose,second sucrose and manitol,all sugars.With relations about 10% to 50 % of the final product.Have seen too,that lactose it´s one of the best excipients used on pharmaceutical industry to press pill,both because his strong binding capacity,and most important,..because increase a lot the absortion and biodisponibility of the drug by the body...
   Mixing all the theories explained here by all....I´m at this moment thinking the way is on fusing and not on cryistallizing:.....it´s posible that there is a two-way intention on use the lactose(both like filler and excipient):....  maybe fusing a 70% mdma fine powder like obtained  from HCL gassing with 30 % anhidrous lactose and let cool down slowly,can make those famouse big chunks with translucid apeareance,because de properties of the lactose? ::) ::)..Can be  the fusing theory and it´s extrange "more potent and faster effects "notation be related to the presence of lactose or another sugar on the final product????? ::) ::)
   
   
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 11:25:40 PM by sassa »

lugh

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2011, 12:58:04 AM »
The more potent isomer of mdma is the S isomer:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109.shtml

and those large crystals were probably produced via resolution of the racemic isomer:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.html

these links were found rather easily by using terms found in this thread, it seems like it was a waste of our time to make all that information available since so many can't be bothered to do their own research  ::)  The end results from the effort applied  8)
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overunity33

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2011, 01:37:13 AM »
god I hate how everyone thinks giant mdx rocks can only be made through chiral resolution.  The "fusing" method works, so does h2o/acetone rex.  If you were going to add adulterants (lactose) I think it would be done via the fusing method.  Very careful temperature control is the ticket.  also isnt there an active cut they use in a lot of those giant netherlands rocks?  cant remember the name for the life of me.

Gosh lugh seems like you can't be bothered to do your research....

lugh

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2011, 01:41:26 AM »
The (S) isomer is the more potent one, that can't be achieved by fusion  ::)  This paper describes the structure of mdma crystals:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/mdma.crystal.structure.pdf  

 8)
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lugh

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2011, 02:00:05 AM »
Quote
Gosh lugh seems like you can't be bothered to do your research....

A lot of what comprises Rhodium's web site was provided by moi the old fashioned way, so let's not go into a discussion about who's spent the most time doing research in the library  ;)  Another useful article on the subject:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/nida.monograph.22.qsar.pdf

which may be of interest to some of the members  8)

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overunity33

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2011, 02:06:50 AM »
i was mostly bullshitting with you lugh... The S isomer is the more potent one but shulgin states that the magic is lost when you separate the two...


psychexplorer

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2011, 02:46:49 AM »
god I hate how everyone thinks giant mdx rocks can only be made through chiral resolution.  The "fusing" method works, so does h2o/acetone rex.  If you were going to add adulterants (lactose) I think it would be done via the fusing method.  Very careful temperature control is the ticket.  also isnt there an active cut they use in a lot of those giant netherlands rocks?  cant remember the name for the life of me.

Gosh lugh seems like you can't be bothered to do your research....

Well as long as we're going off the track from crystals, why not mix it with microcrystalline cellulose, Mg stearate, and lactose, then press it into kilo bricks? If you had the mechanical pressure that wouldn't be hard. That still isn't a crystal, nor is the contents of a dumpster, no matter how tight a compactor may compress it.

Rocks are another matter.

Shake

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2011, 03:48:29 AM »
"For anyone interested in the process I use:
100g powder and 500ml acetone in a flask/beaker with a stirbar
Heat and stir until acetone begins boiling
Add H2O a few mls at a time until everything dissolves
1ml of H2O will dissolve several times it's weight so give it plenty of time to stir and dissolve in between additions
When only a small amount of powder remains undissolved distill off about 100mls of liquid pour into a pyrex baking dish and let it evap slowly for a few days
In the end there will be crystals covered in a layer of syrupy acetone/oil
Discard the acetone syrup and wash the crystals with fresh acetone"


Courtesy of 'Please Stop It Now' from pnaut

jon

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2011, 05:53:44 AM »
i've made crystals like that where you can see through them then, i just got lazy and said fuck it.
but exactly how you get mdma hcl to dissolve in assatone?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 05:55:24 AM by jon »

Shake

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2011, 06:02:03 AM »
Drip wise H20, the more water the more the xtals dissolve

Quote
Add H2O a few mls at a time until everything dissolves
1ml of H2O will dissolve several times it's weight so give it plenty of time to stir and dissolve in between additions

jon

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Re: Giant MDMA crystals
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2011, 06:05:13 AM »
i did it with ethanol you add that first then assatone.