Author Topic: Small Server Setup Issues  (Read 92 times)

Vesp

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Small Server Setup Issues
« on: July 07, 2010, 05:28:26 AM »
I am working on setting up a small dinky server, it has 768GB of RAM, 80GB hard-drive, 1.7-ish something MHz processor, and is on an internet connection of 1.3Mbps download speed, and .7 Mbps upload speed.  -- Not sure if that would be useful for anything, but I am wanting to set it up anyways.
However, I am having some problems with it and think there is a pretty good chance that some here might be able to point me in the right direction.

originally, I was going to get it to run on FreeBSD, however the DVD I had to install it didn't work, so than I started to set it up on an OpenBSD operating system -- got pretty far, but ran into some problems, and figured that it was all more difficult than I thought it would be and OpenBSD is not something I am very familiar with at all -- so sine I had a PC-BSD CD, I figured the easiest thing would be to do is set that up, download "The Warden" and install the AMP inmate. AMP standing for Apache - MySQL, and PHP.

Anyways, I'm not having ANY luck with getting the warden to find the AMP inmate, nor can I find it after it is downloaded, if I were to find it, I am not totally sure if I could get it fully functional. However, I can create jails within the warden.

Anyone have experience in this field, or perhaps making a desktop computer into a server at all? At this point advice would be greatly appreciated, especially if it is relating to how to get AMP and the whole Jail system working together on PC or FreeBSD.


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nk40ouvm

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 06:25:20 AM »
Do you have more experience with BSD-conventions than GNU-conventions, and that's why you're trying to install a BSD distro instead of a Linux? I've used Linux for over 10 years, and Irix and Solaris to a lesser extent. I've turned several desktop machines into servers, and in fact my home desktop does double duty as a home server.

The worst part of setting up a lesser-known OS is usually at the beginning when you're new and encountering hardware and software setup programs for the first time. OpenBSD is supposed to be the most secure, publicly available general purpose OS but also (anecdotally) rather a bitch to set up, like trying to install an early Linux distro on your desktop in the mid 1990s. I don't think the other BSDs are notably more secure than Linux if that's the motivation for trying them.

If you're interested in a BSD-flavor system, I might try OpenSolaris even though its future is uncertain. I think it has a bit more ease of use polish than the free BSD systems, it's open source too, and it includes some cool unique technologies like ZFS.

Also, if you have another computer, you might consider installing VirtualBox on it and virtually installing various operating systems so you can figure out how to do the installation and server software setup before committing to installing anything on the physical machine.

Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 09:18:52 AM »
I do have more expirience with *BSD type things, but I am still soo very new to this stuff that it probably won't make much of a difference.
I do have another computer that is good for virtualbox stuff, I think I mention its properties in another thread, and I have messed around with it a bit with OpenBSD but I found that it was pretty stressful and so I just spent thirty dollars on the computer described above.

I have been using these instructions http://caffetine.org/freebsd-amp.php to install and setup a server on a PC-BSD, and so far it is going all as it should and I am starting on step 7.4 out of 10 or so.
It hopefully will be up and running in no time. As for security, I don't know how much it is going to matter, I will have to look into that later on when I actually get it up and running.
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Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 10:14:35 PM »
Quote
like trying to install an early Linux distro on your desktop in the mid 1990s.

LOL, I am a sucker for punishment and have tried both!(BSD a couple of years ago and Several 90's distros back in the day, I remember slackware being a particular pain). I can attest unless you are well experienced or just after some serious console time, you may want to look at other options than BSD if it is anything like the desktop edition.

I also started setting one up yesterday funnily enough, using http://www.ubuntu.com/server has anyone ever used that? As it installs everything I need from the live cd (openSSH, Apache Tomcat and others very easily (the usual Ubuntu style) It also has apt-get so you can easily install extra packages. But saying that I have not got it running yet (probs with tomcat), so will be watching this post carefully. If you do get it I might change ;D

I will start trying to get it working again and let you know how it goes.

 

Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 10:58:42 PM »
OK, setting up the ubuntu server is much easier, I have it working now -- sort of, it works, but I am having issues with connecting it to the internet and also being connected on my computer -- I think I need to get an Ethernet splitter, but I am not 100% sure that will solve the problem, or lead to others -- such as them both having the exact same LAN IP?
Any ideas when it comes to that?

Also -- what are the properties of your server? I.e RAM, upload speed, etc?
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nk40ouvm

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 11:08:34 PM »
I am a sucker for Ubuntu. The package manager is a night-and-day improvement over the hell of RPMs. I use the LTS 8.04 on my VPS and my laptop. I just recently upgraded my desktop to the newest LTS, 10.04, and it's pretty sweet. I use the desktop as a home file/web server and for software development so I run a lot of "server" stuff on it too.

Vesp, are your multiple servers connected to a router (or modem with embedded router) with DHCP? That's how my home computers share a single internet connection. If the server stays up all the time, or the systems don't change boot order, it should get a fairly stable IP lease even without tweaking anything. Then you can tweak the modem or router settings to pass through external-internet connections to the internal IP address of the server, if you want to run HTTP, FTP, or other services so they're accessible to people outside your household.

Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 11:36:57 PM »
Quote
Also -- what are the properties of your server? I.e RAM, upload speed, etc?

Ohh, I have not got that far yet.....Or do you mean the system specs, it is an unused but fairly new desktop with intel dual core processor. It has about 4 gig of ram and 350gb hardrive it is quite quick. It is a bit of a shame I am using it as it has a pretty sweet nvidia video card also, and lots of other bells and whistles that are lost on it being a server. But it will just sit there with no use otherwise, so......

Regarding the ethernet, I plugged my server straight into my wireless router via ethernet cable. The router has a splitter before it plugs into the wall socket for the telephone, but the ethernet cable does not have one. An ubuntu detected it in about 5 seconds via DHCP.

As said mine is hanging on the apache boot up on the start screen, I need to re install and try again maybe I will just get tomcat via apt-get rather than load it from the disk. Where you able to load apache tomcat?

Quote
I just recently upgraded my desktop to the newest LTS, 10.04, and it's pretty sweet.

Yes I have been meaning to do that also, you just convinced me!


Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 12:10:56 AM »
@nk40ouvm, I am getting a router, and currently only have one server, but it can't connect to the internet since the modem only has one ethernet plug, which goes to my main desktop computer...
but using a craigslist type site I should be getting a router for only 10 dollars today or tomorrow and than everything should work out just fine, and I will hopefully be able to get HTTP, FTP, and others up and running with out to much difficulty as I have done so in the past using Xampp on a computer.

@Naf1 -- Nice computer! It sounds like the bottle neck is probably going to be upload speed? Best of luck with all of that!


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nk40ouvm

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 01:29:02 AM »
I haven't tried to use Tomcat.

Vesp, I would suggest getting MySQL, Apache, PHP, etc. through the apt system on Ubuntu (if you're going the Ubuntu way) rather than using Xampp. That way you can get security updates installed either automatically or with a couple of clicks depending on how you configure updates, and you'll always be alerted when security updates are available.

Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 06:40:46 AM »
Quote
Vesp, I would suggest getting MySQL, Apache, PHP, etc. through the apt system on Ubuntu (if you're going the Ubuntu way) rather than using Xampp. That way you can get security updates installed either automatically or with a couple of clicks depending on how you configure updates, and you'll always be alerted when security updates are available.
Oh I did, I was just saying that I didn't have problems with getting a site on the internet using Xampp using windows.
However, my router that I got for 10 dollars isn't working to be all that great. :/

It is a NETGEAR ProSafe VPN Firewall FVS318, and I am using qwest dsl internet -- I can't get it to work at all -- its function is more than what I wanted, so it is causing problems I believe. :(

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ChesireCat

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 07:11:25 AM »
Sory vesp.. can'toffer anything but moral support, considering the opperating systems you want to use. I am Microsoft certified on all server platforms. I offer this more as an explanation as to why I cant offer anything more in terms of support. If something other must be taken from the statement then I suggest,  I shouldn't find it difficult to stay employed..  Heh..

CC

Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 11:55:15 PM »
Well I could not get mine working because I downloaded the wrong one ;D

I was thrown because it said that most users will want 64bit and it is the default, but they have the 32bit for the few that need it? I did not realize until it tried to install the AMD64 bit kernel and failed...ohh, I want i386 for use with intel architecture which would be 32 bit.....


Quote
Nice computer! It sounds like the bottle neck is probably going to be upload speed?

What do you mean?

btw; I think xampp is available in the ubuntu repositories, so you can
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install xampp. If you cant find it
Code: [Select]
sudo tasksel and select LAMP.

Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 12:10:20 AM »
Quote
Quote
What do you mean?
Your computer just sounds like it has pretty good hardware and ought to be able to really pump out info/do searches, etc -- so your upload speed would be what makes it slow for the other users, if you ever get it so others are using it, or for yourself if you are away.

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Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 12:51:24 AM »
How do I test upload speed? Or is it just generally the bottle neck, as my internet provider does not have great upload speeds to begin with.

Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 02:33:29 AM »
Ubuntu LAMP Server Installation With Screenshots
Automatic LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP) In about 15 minutes, the time it takes to install Ubuntu Server Edition, you can have a LAMP server up and ready to go. This feature, exclusive to Ubuntu Server Edition, is available at the time of installation.

The LAMP option saves the trouble of installing and integrating each of the four separate LAMP components, a process which can take hours and requires someone who is skilled in the installation and configuration of the individual applications. You get increased security, reduced time to install, and reduced risk of misconfiguration, all of which results in a lower cost of ownership.

http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-lamp-server-installation-with-screenshots.html

But as said if you already have it up and running you need to;

Code: [Select]
sudo taskselAnd select LAMP.

Or have you got it running already?

Vesp

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 02:38:09 AM »
I have it all working, the server works, but I just can't physically connect it to the internet while my computer is connected, and so I have a bit of a problem which I figure I can solve if i get a router, which I did get, but the router doesn't want to cooperate. :(

Did you test your upload speed with http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/?
If so, what was the upload speed?
Does your ISP allow for server usage? If not, you'll have to limit its bandwidth, and maybe run it through a different port as it is not that uncommon for ISP's to block port 80, or others...

I wonder if SSH would have any use when it came to sharing files? SSH is easy to use, and very secure.
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no1uno

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 02:52:55 AM »
So does XAMPP which is a hell of a lot more user friendly than most
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 02:54:55 AM by no1uno »
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Naf1

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 03:09:51 AM »
Quote
Did you test your upload speed with http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/?

LOL, I am still downloading the 32bit version! The other one downloaded in mere minutes, the 32bit download tops out at 20kbs so is going to take around 6 hours. It is not my end as I am downloading my daily shows quite quickly and the ubuntu download wont exceed 20 no matter if I stop everything else or not.

Quote
It is a NETGEAR ProSafe VPN Firewall FVS318

wow, thats impressive. I am rocking one of these http://www.inasolutions.com.au/shop/DSL-G604T-54Mbps-Wireless-ADSL-22-Router-P6613.aspx thats in Australian dollars. If you bought one locally they would be about $50 US. That has something like 6 ethernet ports on the back and 4 wireless connections at one time it can pull off (so like 10 different simultaneous connections). And is compatible  with most every linux distro(every one I have tried).

Quote
Does your ISP allow for server usage? If not, you'll have to limit its bandwidth, and maybe run it through a different port as it is not that uncommon for ISP's to block port 80, or others...

I do not know that one?

lugh

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 03:32:21 AM »
Have you considered OWL:

http://www.openwall.com/Owl/

"Owl", -- a security-enhanced server platform.

"Owl" (or "Openwall GNU/*/Linux"; please, note that only the "O" is capitalized in either case) is a security-enhanced operating system with Linux and GNU software as its core, compatible with other major distributions of GNU/*/Linux. It is intended as a server platform. And, of course, it's free.

Features.

While we value quality above feature set, Owl does indeed offer a number of features besides just trying to be more secure.

Most obviously, Owl can be used as a base for installing whatever software is generally available for GNU/*/Linux systems. It offers some compatibility (read below) for software packages found in or developed for other major Linux distributions, such as Red Hat Linux.

Being a server platform, Owl includes a growing set of integrated Internet services.

Additionally, all of our official CDs and downloadable ISO images provide a complete live system usable right off the CD in multi-user mode, with networking and development tools. Of course, the same CDs and ISOs also contain packages to be installed on a hard drive (using the included installer program called "settle") and full source code.

Owl includes a complete build environment capable to re-build the entire system from source with one simple command ("make buildworld"). (This is explained in more detail below.)

Owl supports multiple architectures (currently x86, x86-64, SPARC, and Alpha) as this lets you use it in more cases and helps us catch certain classes of software bugs earlier, thus improving the reliability of Owl packages.

Security.

Owl combines several approaches to reduce the number and/or impact of flaws in its software components and impact of flaws in third-party software that one might install on the system.

The primary approach used is proactive source code review for several classes of software vulnerabilities. However, because of the large amount of code, there's a certain level of "importance" for a software component or a part thereof to be audited. Currently, only pieces of code which are typically run with privileges greater than those of a regular user and/or typically process data obtained over a network are audited before the corresponding software component is included. This covers relevant code paths in many of the system libraries, all SUID/ SGID programs, all daemons and network services. Other software may be audited when it is already a part of Owl. Potential problems found during the audit are fixed or, in some pathological cases, may prevent the software component from being included. In general, code quality and privilege management are always considered when there's a choice between implementations of a feature. As the project evolves, many of the software components will be replaced with ones of our own.

When packaged for Owl, the software components are configured or, when necessary, modified in order to provide safe defaults, apply the least privilege principle, and introduce privilege separation. The use of safe defaults, where optional and potentially dangerous features need to be turned on explicitly, lets us audit the pieces of code used in in the default configuration in a more thorough way. Extra systems administration facilities ("owl-control") are provided for managing system features such as the optional SUID/SGID binaries independently from installing the corresponding packages. Every Owl package will have its audit status documented to allow for risk assessment.

While source code review is the preferred way to deal with software vulnerabilities, it can't be applied in all cases. Typically, when insecure third-party software is installed on an otherwise secure system, "the game" is lost. The only thing an operating system can guarantee is that potential unauthorized access would be limited to those privileges granted to the software in question. However, in the recent years, a number of approaches were developed which reduce the likelihood and/or may reduce the impact of successful real-world attacks on insecure third-party software. Owl will use some of those "hardening" approaches in various parts of the system.

Owl uses "strong" cryptography within its core components, and already includes some security policy enforcement (proactive password checking with "pam_passwdqc", password and account expiration, network address- based access control) and integrity checking ("mtree") capabilities. It is one of our goals to provide a wide range of security tools with Owl, available for use "out of the box".

The build environment and package management.

Unlike most other "Linux distributions", Owl includes a complete build environment capable to re-build the entire system from source with one simple command ("make buildworld"). However, the implementation of "make buildworld" on Owl is very different from that available with *BSD. It is in fact more similar to *BSD ports/packages, covering the entire Owl userland (that is, everything but the Linux kernel).

The Owl userland source code consists of two directory trees, where each Owl package may be split between the two trees. One source tree consists of original archives as distributed by the maintainers of the corresponding software components. The other tree, which we store in a CVS repository, has the build specifications, patches, and other Owl-specific additions to the packages. Some packages were developed as a part of Owl, and thus exist entirely in the CVS repository.

Based on the two source trees, binary packages are built. They can be installed (with "make installworld") to update the system itself or to create a new Owl installation (the ROOT= setting), or they can be transferred over a network and installed elsewhere.

We're using RPM for the binary packages, as that allows for reasonable dependency handling when installing packages from or intended for Red Hat Linux and several other distributions, on an Owl system.

Compatibility.

Except for a few cases where this conflicts with our more important goals, Owl tries to be binary- and package- compatible with several other major distributions of GNU/*/Linux. In particular, in most cases it is possible to install applications packaged for a recent version of Fedora Core or Red Hat Enterprise Linux on Owl (as of Owl 2.0 release, this applies to FC3 and RHEL4).


It's supposed to be pretty secure  8)
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jboogie

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Re: Small Server Setup Issues
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2010, 08:08:55 AM »
might i suggest some virtualization?

install vmware and create a virtual with whatever you want. get it right and one you do, then use a p2v converter to do an actual install on the box in question...

of leave it virtual... totally virtual. then yu have the system able to run anywhere you want. this is great for DR situations...

or if you wanna stick to open source, then try Xen. its fucking bad ass to say the least and will provide you with a secure and stable platform to run any version of anything you want, windows or linux. and beeing that its an open source virtualization platform, the hypervisor uses basically nothing and saves all the resources for the vservers its running.