Author Topic: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.  (Read 1008 times)

no1uno

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2009, 05:11:58 AM »
The major one I've seen about the traps here is 1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (BCDMH)... Seems like getting bromine out of that would be slightly more problematic (especially if pure bromine was required). I remember spending some time trying to work out a workable route, but the price is insane anyway (Pool chems are great, but they are FUCKING dear in this Cunt Tree).
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Goldmember

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2009, 05:30:41 AM »
Have you ever come across any Na Bromide in a pool shop No1uno?
I see that a lot of them advertise the stuff for building a bromine bank in spa baths etc,but Im yet to find a place that actually stocks it. :(
Not that Ive searched real hard.

(from msds BCDMH)
The products of thermal degredation @160 deg c= Bromine, HBr, HCl, oxides of carbon and nitrogen.
Maybe simply heating the stuff will liberate a workable form of bromine/ide

no1uno

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2009, 06:09:04 AM »
Nope, not for a few years now
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

rvd

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2009, 11:02:27 AM »
while out and about, i noticed that some spa shit contained NaBr (150g/Kg) as well as sodium dichloroisocyanurate, which is the bulk. just wondering if it would be possible to separate the two? (i had a look at some of the properties of both compounds, but could not see a way) any ideas?

Douchermann

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2009, 10:35:54 PM »
Couldn't find the solubility of the sodium salt of isocyanuric acid, however the free acid is barely soluble in water.  Add the mixture to water, acidify well (dilute non oxidising acids) then filter, followed by basification.  You have to do stoich, otherwise you'll end up with a bit of salt from the acid upon basification.

Sedit

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2009, 11:12:54 PM »
What acid would you recommend? The solubility of isocyanuric acid is much lower then NaBr so perhaps the NaBr could be leached out with cold water as well. Plus IIRC the amount of isocyanuric acid is low compaired to the amount of NaBr.

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Vesp

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2009, 11:15:16 PM »
Though at a costly price NaBr is sold at your local Wally World, at near 98% or something like that. 2oz for $2 or something to that effect.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Sedit

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 11:28:33 PM »
Not no more. They only sell that for the first month or so of summer. Trust me I was quite pissed when I went there just recently to stock up knowing they would stop selling soon and its all done already, no more pool chems unless your highly highly lucky.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2009, 11:32:28 PM »
Ah I didn't realize that :(
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Douchermann

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2009, 06:12:46 PM »
@sedit: according to RVD, NaBr is the minority of the mixture, being around 15%.  I would suggest an acid like HCl in low conc (~10%).  IIRC HCl and NaBr only forms HBr in equilibrium so if done right, the HCl should be completely used up by the isocyanuric acid.  Then, fractional crystallization can separate the NaCl and NaBr.  An alternative would be forming HBr(aq) then distilling and basifying.

rvd

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2009, 12:17:00 PM »
hey thank you for the input. upon adding the Na dichloro to h2o, some cl2 was liberated. even more when some dilute hcl was added. most of the solution appeared to form some large shards. a wee bit more, and most of the crystals disappeared. eventually leaving a ppt in the bottom of the solution. id assume that would be isocyanuric acid considering the cl2 liberation and the formation of sodium chloride? but yeah, verdict: great for chlorine! the amount of nabr is just a pain in the ass.

no1uno

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2009, 10:03:43 PM »
Maybe heat the lot with H3PO4 to get the HBr & HCl - form the salts and separate them by fractional crystallization? Just presuming that the cyclic Chlorine carrier(s) will give the same result as the chlorine salts.
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

eesakiwi

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2009, 05:17:34 AM »
hey thank you for the input. upon adding the Na dichloro to h2o, some cl2 was liberated. even more when some dilute hcl was added.

 Ah, that makes sense. When swIm did it using the parrifin oil. The weight of the oil above the bromine powder was a major factor.

 Now I see that the Chlorine gas being made under oil layer, in the HCL acid/bromine mix,
 was being pushed out downwards thru the Bromine mix powder.

 That was pre chlorinating the bromine mix & helped to 'pushout' the Bromine when the HCL got to it.

 Someone else do what I did & see what happens. It only uses one or two crushed bromine tablets & a dash of Oil & HCL acid.

meme

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 07:32:06 PM »
Yep, that's one of the refs.

It works great on chlorine, and iodine as well.

Perfect for 2C-I and 2C-C.

I call bs on the claim you can make 2C-I with 2C-H, oxone, and KI.


poisoninthestain

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2009, 07:52:10 PM »

I call bs on the claim you can make 2C-I with 2C-H, oxone, and KI.


You'd be correct. I thought I corrected this elsewhere but my experiments with oxone and halogenations of 2C-X failed...after the workup I was left with nothing several times...it's conclusive IME that oxone anything for 2C-H does not work.

Moriarty

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2009, 12:51:35 AM »
Tru-Blu is a spa treatment that is 98.9% sodium bromide.  Do a search.  It's $20 for 2 pounds.  I'd advise buying it from any of the distributors that aren't selling it on ebay.  Easiest source I have found thus far.

Sedit

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2009, 01:49:51 AM »
Yep, that's one of the refs.

It works great on chlorine, and iodine as well.

Perfect for 2C-I and 2C-C.

I call bs on the claim you can make 2C-I with 2C-H, oxone, and KI.




Well its great to see someone that may have practical experiance in the area but it you are going to call BS on a respected member please state why.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Enkidu

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2009, 04:12:34 AM »
^ many trusted members have said that it doesn't work

Sedit

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2009, 09:01:27 PM »
I know. Including the person that made the statement in the first place but still just saying bullshit helps no one in anyway. Just making a point thats all.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

drone1240

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Re: Sources of Bromine/Bromide.
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2010, 07:53:28 PM »
Does the Bromine stain the glassware when doing a distillation?
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....