Author Topic: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)  (Read 92 times)

Vesp

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How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« on: October 03, 2010, 12:23:50 AM »
The first time I made potato-dextrose agar, It turned out to be a total mess. The main reason being is that after I had boiled either cut, sliced or grated potatoes in water for 30 minutes - it produced a very cloudy solution suspended with tons of small starchy molecules that did not really did not fall out of this semi-goopy liquid.

After reading this from sciencemadness...
Quote
I did a funny little experiment with p-dichlorobenzene. I took approximately 2 grams of the solid and put this in a test tube. I heated this material, such that it became a colorless mobile liquid (I didn't measure the temperature, but it was not really hot, at most 75 C or so). To this liquid I added a tiny speck of solid iodine. This dissolves with a beautiful purple color. Next, I let the liquid cool down slowly. At a certain point in time, it solidifies, but when this happens a peculiar effect can be observed. The liquid first solidifies at the glass walls (which is expected, heat is lost through the glass walls of the test tube), but the solidified material is colorless! Slowly the solidification goes more inwards and the colorless layer reaches a thickness of well over 3 mm. Finally, when all of the material has solidified, a dark core is in the middle of the sample and a colorless/transparent layer is around the core.

So, two remarkable effects can be observed:
1) The freezing process removes the impurity of the iodine to quite a large extent.
2) The color of the dissolved iodine changes from purple to brown when the liquid solidifies.

I thought that it would probably also work with freezing water pushing the soluble and insoluble impurities out of the forming ice crystals. Than later when dissolved, the smaller starch particles will fall to the bottom and allow for the soluble items, such as the nutrients, and minerals to go or stay in solution.

***This would also work very well for other things I assume, such anything that can freeze and has particles suspended in it -- likely water based plant extractions would help kick out all of the tannins, etc. I could be wrong, however.


The PDA made out of this solution grows bacteria, mycelium, and whatever else that grows on PDA just as well as the not-so clear stuff. However, you can see and spot contamination, the structure of the growing organisms and droplets of water. So this makes doing various projects a lot easier.

This works really well - however pouring the clear solution off of the light particulate matter was really difficult since it just loved getting kicked back up into solution and messing everything up again. so I came up with this trick to fix that problem.

Here are some really crappy pictures to show the process I used to over come this problem. Leaving the solution in a pop bottle than poking a small hole in the side just a centimeter or so above the potato-junk layer allows for it to slowly drain off and not kick up any particulates. I used a jar and a ring stand and a clamp to set it up. Pretty simple and easy -- almost pointless pictures since its easy to understand and they really are only good as thumbnails and not as the fully expanded version.
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jon

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 01:42:03 AM »
good technique check your pm's

Vesp

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 04:57:59 AM »
Additionally here are some pictures of shiitake mycelium growing on the clear PDA.

You are seeing the back side of the agar, its not super thick, but this was done in a polypropylene 8oz deli cup - so it had to be at least deep enough to make fill the raised rim and cover the center area with enough agar to be usable.

PS. The square shadow on both pictures is from the tyvek filter patch that is glued onto the lid where a hole was melted through using a chemistry ring stand -- these prove to be effective, cheap and reusable petri dish substitutes - I got 250 8oz PP deli cups for 4 dollars.

I believe they will also work in place of mason jars for PF's Tek though, I have not personally done this yet I will start tomorrow using a modified PF tek of brown rice flour and sawdust for growing mycelium as has been done by Roger Rabbit on the shroomery.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 05:03:59 AM by Vesp »
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jon

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 09:37:41 PM »
hey vesp i wanted to throw this out there.
c. purpurea is next to impossible to culture saprophytically for anything useful
i understand it took big pharma 40 years to get it right because big pharma is interested in medicinal alkaloids like ergotamine and such. so you don't see much effort into culturing c. paspali. which only make the simple lysergamides.
erstwhile they were infesting fields of rye to obtain these alkaloids.
so in light of this fact and the reality that it would take a lifetime figuratively speaking to get c. purpurea to produce anything worthwhile.
how about this just moisten rye or barley and mix some sclerotes in there.
this would be a low tech approach and from my limited knowledge it works because the grains are still alive and this would be a parasitic culture.
even though other molds would grow on it it seems feasable to do all you have to do then, is mechanically separate the ergot infestation from the rest of the molds.
if you sterilize this it would kill the grains and it would be a different matter correct??
i've heard of this being done and it works to some extent the ergot does spread out.
it does have the advantage of being low tech and doable.
what do you think?

Vesp

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 09:40:22 PM »
wouldn't work I'm pretty sure. I think the ergot spores need to infect the wheat at the same time of pollination?
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jon

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 11:33:38 PM »
no i've read accounts of people who did this and the ergot did spread i have'nt tried it personally but i have no reason to disbelieve them

Vesp

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 11:40:48 PM »
I would like to see the source?
It might work, but it would likely not produce alkaloids properly - though, I could be wrong. I don't know.
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jon

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 12:26:39 AM »
i can't find it for the life of me one day i'll have to try it out and report back.
sorry just a hypothetical suggestion

Tsathoggua

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 08:11:41 AM »
I find saprophytic production of Claviceps a remote possibility if any.

The fungus needs to infect a growing flower spike, at the right time of its life cycle, when the anthers are beginning to come out and the flower begins to open up, they infect by dissolving cell walls of the plant enzymatically to gain purchase, they then spread down towards the ovary, siphoning off sugars and trace elements as they do, it is once they reach the ovary then they take over, warping the growing grain into a sclerotium.

Taken from my reading of The Genus Claviceps.

As it seems the sclerotia are formed from the growing seed itself, I fail to see how it can do so if the seed is already formed, dried and not actively growing.

Ergot doesn't grow ON seed, it takes over it and BECOMES the seed.

That isn't to say that sphaecelial  growth is impossible, but the parasitic lifecycle cannot take place without living grass.
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Vesp

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 06:44:32 PM »

Right now I am trying a little experiment with making some brown rice flower and saw dust PDA agar. I boiling the BRF and sawdust in water together than added potato-dextrose mixture. I will add agar later.

Pretty much in random amounts but I think it might work better for the growth of shiitake mushroom mycelium as compared to just PDA -- Any thought on that?

Would anyone happen to have info on the uses and properties of sawdust agar, brown rice agar, or anything along those lines?
Just curious, doesn't seem like there is much use or info on such mixtures.
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jon

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Re: How To Make Clear Potato-Dextrose Agar (PDA)
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 11:55:06 PM »
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 12:30:21 AM by jon »