Author Topic: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar  (Read 98 times)

Vesp

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Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« on: October 11, 2010, 09:39:18 PM »
How does one effectively determine if it is a fungi or a bacteria on an agar plate?

I thought this was fairly easy but after reconsidering it, I don't think it is so simple without the use of a microscope.

I had heard that bacteria looked like different colored wet spots on the agar plates, while fungi were white filamentous substances.
However, I've realized that yeast is a fungi and does not look that white nor is it filamentous.

So, say I had a culture of some sort of white-ish light colored growth on agar - how could I go about determining if it is mycelium from some sort of fungi or bacteria?

The white stuff I have currently is coming from  sterilized cuttings and fresh unripe seeds of ipomoea violacea. The white material clearly originated from the morning glory and is more white than I have seen bacteria in the past, additionally it looks fairly dry and clumps up slightly on the plant sample and seems to grow on it as well but it is not at all fluffy or filamentous. It is a very thin layer on the top of the agar.

Anyways, any help on identifying the difference between bacteria and fungi would be appreciated. I
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embezzler

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 10:21:46 PM »
Have you got any pictures?

I know you have said it in your post but typically bacteria are blotchy and flat-slightly raised, grow more quickly and are typically less coloured than fungi on plates.

Fungi grow slowly at higher temps and best around 20 C. They tend to grow in a more circular culture and are often deeply coloured and filamentous.

If you have white growth on seeds then it is highly likely to be fungi. IMO.

Is there any smell from the culture that you can describe, sometime this is an easy way to identify the culture. Some microbiologists I know can even identify species like this! for example Pseudamonas (sp?) smell like apples

Pics will help a lot with this.
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Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 10:23:10 PM »
Right after I got done posting that I figured out how to take good close up photos bymessing around with some lenses to a telescope and my dinky digital camera - This should be helpful!

Now what is this junk?
Not to sure if you guys use the drag & drop method -- but it works best to see the pictures... by dragging them into the URL place or a place for the tabs -- here is a direct link to the pictures uploaded though.
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1436.0;attach=2860;image
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1436.0;attach=2858;image
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 10:25:27 PM by Vesp »
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embezzler

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 11:00:14 PM »
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Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 11:15:15 PM »
The morning glory was soaked in 3% H2O2, scrubbed with a cotton ball also soaked in H2O2 and while the bit of morning glory was still dripping and bubbling from H2O2 it was placed in an 8 oz deli cup, which have a good history of remaining sterile. It sat for 3-5 days (not sure) in a dark place at room temperature.

The first ones to show growth of this type of life was one from an unripe and cut open seed - than later the same looking "endophyte" came out of the leaves and stems which were also treated with H2O2 and all the same stuff.

The agar was sterilized by boiling the solution, adding H2O2 and than poured into a deli cup with a tyvek filter patch on top. It was than boiled again and allowed to cool.

The only life that appears is coming out of the morning glory samples and is shown in the pictures I have taken.

I think it might start to look similar to the last picture linked, is that a slime mold endophyte - if those even exist?





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embezzler

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 07:57:29 AM »
Slime mould endophytes certainly exist :) It does look like that is what you have growing but a picture at a later time period will help confirm. I will do some more looking to make sure that it is a slime mould type endophyte we are interested in here.

It would be nice to see some van urk reagent used on a sample of this.

Any unusual smell from this ?

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Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 06:49:58 PM »
I have not noticed any significant smells.

I wish I had some Van urk reagent. I am going to be trying at first a black light on it to see if it glows (it probably will, regardless since generally fungi seem to IME) and than when I get around too it I want to put the Salkowski reagent on it - but I do not have any HCl currently and so I can't produce the FeCl3.

Perhaps I could make an extremely crude test by adding NaCl to H2SO4, dissolving Iron, and than adding some bleach to produce Cl2 in situation?

I don't have any iodide either, so I can't do the Pepto-Bismol rigged dragendorff reagent.
Not really currently prepared for significant alkaloid testing, which is unfortunate.

Edit:Also - did I mention that this seems to grow incredibly fast on PDA agar?
It seems to take a day or two to come out of the plant but once it is on the agar it seems to double over night.
One of the samples has produced a large bubble or two on top of the agar.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 07:04:14 PM by Vesp »
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Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 11:37:24 PM »
Update: Does not seem to glow any significant amount/at all under a blacklight tube and under a incredibly pathetic microscope does is fairly globular in nature, but really nothing more can be said about its shape.
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jon

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 03:03:56 AM »
well a little dissapointing i understand the actual fungus takes weeks to grow it looks like antibiotics are the LAW are far as this is concerned.

Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 03:07:20 AM »
Might have been different for the ipomoea violacea fungi than the grass fungi. Still might be the case, but it is looking less and less likely the more I read.

It doesn't look like bacteria and it looks like that is the only thing growing.
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jon

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 06:43:48 AM »
well u.v. light of wavelengths of 340 nanometers or so will fluoresce lysergamides in extremely low concentrations like a fraction of a microgram can be detected this way.
perhaps you could do some gram stain tests
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:32:03 PM by jon »

overunity33

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 06:47:38 AM »
Now that I think about it a blacklight should be sufficient for initial screening of ergot producing fungi, 60ug blotters glow brightly under them... bet you could see 5-10ug on a pencil eraser sized colony with a normal blacklight.  
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 06:50:27 AM by overunity33 »

jon

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 10:30:23 AM »
you can see submicrogram quantities if the wavelength is right 340 nm
max absorption at 540 or thereabouts nm lambda.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:30:52 PM by jon »

Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 10:05:48 PM »
And naturally the blacklights intensity could be adjusted based on distance. If the conditions are right you might be able to effectively determine the concentration differences and isolate stronger better ones more easily.

That will have to be experimented with at some point.
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jon

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 11:23:56 PM »
well u.v. visible spectroscopy is the name your looking for.
it is used to determine conjugated double bonds in organic chemistry.
lsd has a 9-10 conjugated double bond

http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/VirtTxtJml/Spectrpy/UV-Vis/spectrum.htm

all very vauge to me because i have'nt read up on it lately it determines the distance betwist the homo and lumo orbitals
highest occupied molecular orbital and lowest unoccupied molecular orbital
math was never my strong point.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:27:08 PM by jon »

Vesp

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 12:24:58 AM »
Thank you, I'll be sure to check it out.
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embezzler

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Re: Fungi Vs Bacteria on Agar
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 07:55:53 AM »
A crude densitometry study would do IMO. Take a photograph of the fluoresence and compare relative density. More details available when required.

UV Vis is more suited to quantitative rather than semi quantitative studies.
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