Author Topic: Optically pure tartaric acid?  (Read 133 times)

psychexplorer

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Optically pure tartaric acid?
« on: January 28, 2011, 01:23:22 AM »
Tartaric acid is readily available OTC and from online non-chem vendors, primarily for use as a food additive (e.g., wine, cheese). Compared to the price and hassle of a chem supply house, the food places are dirt cheap and cash and carry.

Unfortunately, nobody seems very concerned with informing aspiring vintners and cheesemakers of the enantiomeric composition of their products.

Either D or L would be fine, so long as it is not DL.

With regard to what is being sold as "tartaric acid" by, for, and to the stereoignorant, is that "tartaric acid" a synonym for anything more specific? D? L? DL? All of the above? Does anyone have any better information on the generally available commercial blends, even if only to advise us to stay away from it?

I am not exactly keen on replicating Pasteur's technique of separation with a microscope and tweezers. Ordering from a chem supplier is a no go, for cost and other reasons.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 01:24:56 AM by psychexplorer »

meme

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2011, 03:44:42 AM »
Natural tartaric acid is l-tartaric.  It is rare in nature to have anything other than stereospecific molecules.  This is a consequence of enzymatic synthesis.

Vesp

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2011, 06:17:19 AM »
I would look into the process in which tartaric acid is manufactured, if it is perhaps by fermentation, than it should be good, and if it is by some chemical means it is bad...
So what way is it normally produced for the food industry?

You could always buy a small amount at first and test its optical purity by getting two dirt cheap polarized lenses either from a 3D movie house, or pop some out from some sun glasses used by fly fisherman. I did this with karo syrup and you could see light changing, etc because of the sugar and angles of the lenses. if it were DL you would see no difference, I think.
I believe that would allow you to determine if it is optically pure or not, but not inform you of the D or L unless you wanted to get more into it. right?
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overunity33

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2011, 07:22:58 AM »
There is a method for separating dl rochelle salts based on their solubility.. but maybe this is one of those things that would be worth ordering from another country.

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 06:57:00 PM »
I would think that almost all food grade Tartaric acid comes from a natural source such as extraction from wines and other fermenting biproducts sold off in industrial settings to suppliment cost of the commercial reactor whatever may be to yeild the tartric acid as a byproduct. In doing so all natural isomers as already stated are of the L-variety. I would expect most store bought tartric acid to be a single isomer.
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meme

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2011, 07:10:11 PM »
!wiki:

"Naturally occurring tartaric acid is chiral, meaning that it has molecules that are non-superimposable on their mirror-images. It is a useful raw material in organic chemistry for the synthesis of other chiral molecules. The naturally occurring form of the acid is L-(+)-tartaric acid or dextrotartaric acid.

"A rarely occurring optically inactive form of tartaric acid, DL-tartaric acid is a 1:1 mixture of the levo and dextro forms. It is distinct from mesotartaric acid and was called racemic acid (from Latin racemus - "a bunch of grapes")."


Sedit

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 07:11:50 PM »
Thats exactly what I was stating, odds are any Tartric acid you find will be of a single isomer.
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psychexplorer

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 07:51:30 PM »
Much of that assumes the source was produced by biosynthesis.

It might be generally safe to assume samples consist of a single isomer.

From what has been said, many probably do.

A studious bee would be advised to find a way to ensure purity. It would be a shame for a bee to waste many hours and much of his meager discretionary income on pricey supplies only to flush it away with an assumption. Pure science does not like assumptions.


I would look into the process in which tartaric acid is manufactured, if it is perhaps by fermentation, than it should be good, and if it is by some chemical means it is bad...
So what way is it normally produced for the food industry?

That probably makes too many assumptions regarding what tartaric acid is out there, if it may have been blended, where it came from, and how it was made, at least for a general rule to be established.

You could always buy a small amount at first and test its optical purity by getting two dirt cheap polarized lenses either from a 3D movie house, or pop some out from some sun glasses used by fly fisherman. I did this with karo syrup and you could see light changing, etc because of the sugar and angles of the lenses. if it were DL you would see no difference, I think.
I believe that would allow you to determine if it is optically pure or not, but not inform you of the D or L unless you wanted to get more into it. right?

I'm thinking something like this:

1. Buy a quantity of tartaric acid. It is dirt cheap and readily available, so it makes sense to start off with a large enough quantity.
2. Tartaric acid is optically active. Test purity by examining optical rotation through a polarized lens. If it appears to be pure, then there is at least a substantial enantiomeric excess of one or the other, and further testing is warranted.

Now this is where things become tricky. If the unknown tartaric acid has a substantial excess, but not enantiomeric purity, then there will be a problem.

The procedure could be:

3. Use tartaric acid in substantial excess to resolve a small, accurately weighed quantity of a sample.
4. Bioassay the result. The results of the bioassay on a resolved sample will determine the configuration of the bioassayed sample, allowing one to backcalculate the nature of the tartaric acid which produced that sample.

However, this would neither establish enantiomeric purity, nor would it accomplish much beyond the optical test, although this can be viewed as an alternate procedure avoiding the need for physical examination of its optical properties.

(4) would also be dependent on the sample. (3) and (4) would only be applicable if a subjective bioassay can reliably distinguish the difference.

Perhaps:

5. Calculate yield of resolved sample compared to unresolved input.

If (5) yields a mass in line with what would be expected from the resolution procedure, then the enantiomeric purity of the unknown tartaric acid can be deduced. If the yield exceeds that published in the literature, or goes substantially over 50% (or whatever is appropriate for the sample input), then the tartaric acid lacks purity, for otherwise it could not precipitate out more of one configuration than existed in the input sample.

If all the tests are passed, then it should validate the suitability of the tartaric acid. Tartaric acid being cheap, a bee would have been wise to order enough to avoid frequent repetition of this time consuming procedure.

This should give both the identity of the unknown tartaric as either predominately D-tartaric or L-tartaric as well as a reasonable basis for its enantiomeric purity.

I like the simplicity so far because it requires no equipment or reagents beyond what was already required to get to the sample point.

Any mistake so far?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 07:53:31 PM by psychexplorer »

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 08:03:36 PM »
Simplest way would be to just dissolve the sample in a heated solvent till a supersaturated solution is achieved and then slowly cool it down. If its racemic it would precipitate a powder or very small crystals but if you see very large ones forming you can be sure what you have is a pure resolution.
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psychexplorer

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 08:37:48 PM »
But doesn't that assume pure D, pure L, or a balanced DL?

What is readily available is food grade. We don't know where it came from, what process(es) were used to make it, or if it was blended somewhere along the chain. For all we know, the mom and pop wine supply store switched suppliers at some point and is shipping a haphazard blend.

The problem is food grade tartaric acid is fungible for food use but not for laboratory use.

Any large commercial lab or industrial customer would be buying large lots of exactly what they need, knowing exactly what it is, not improvising as hobbyists are forced to.

Suppose you are dealing with 90% D and 10% L. That becomes a problem.

Despite improvisation in sources and some methods, there is still something to be said for doing things the 'right' way and taking an interest in the science and technique behind it all. I feel that is what separates this place's mindset from some of the others.

I don't know, it just feels wrong to mix in grab bag tartaric acid with complete ignorance of composition after many hours spent carefully paying attention to process and quality. I guess it is the juxtaposition which is so bothersome. After so much precision, so much procedure, and so much extra work making OTC items into lab grade supplies, and trying to work like a real scientist (not a "cook" - I hate that mentality), it seems rather anticlimactic to use mystery tartaric acid.

This is my hobby. I find it interesting and intellectually stimulating when one can use one's mind to work with skill and precision despite a social structure which tells us all we need is available on a store shelf. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as I would like to be, or as many of the people here, which is why I was hoping to formulate a proper procedure.


That being said, any idea how tartaric acid behaves during recrystallization if it is somewhere between a pure D/L and a balanced DL?

lugh

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 11:53:15 PM »
Cream of tartar is the salt of dextrotartaric acid which is the naturally occurring enantiomer and is thus much less expensive  ;)  Wikipedia is an excellent place to start one's research, posting a thread without studying the Wikipedia article shows a lack of due diligence  ::)  The end results from the effort applied  8)
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overunity33

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 01:31:08 AM »
You just simply aren't going to run into d-tartaric OTC in any usable amount.  Have you looked at the price differences between the 2?  If for some crazy reason an industrial process produced a mixture of both they would separate the d-tartaric and sell it at a huge profit.  Count out any process related to wine or organic sources as it was stated about that only the natural l-isomer is produced in those industries.   What I was saying is that you should find DL-potassium sodium tartrate and use the solubilities to separate those and covert back to tartaric.
p.s. interesting fact, uncle fester claimed to have been visited long ago by "chemical scrutinisers" after ordering rochelle salts, doesn't mention which configuration.

Vesp

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Re: Optically pure tartaric acid?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 03:14:48 AM »
It is my understanding the FDA is a big fan of not allowing people to eat synthetically made chemicals, or produced in a certain way. Such is the case with drinking alcohol - it cannot be made, by law, from ethane oxidation if it is to be used for food, and same goes for acetic acid, and sometimes methods for synthetic chemicals are limited as well. Such as for diethyl ether, it must be made from ethanol/H2SO4 dehydration.

I believe this is the case, I am having trouble finding the laws made up by the FDA, however - but look into that.
Perhaps food grade tartaric acid must be made naturally, and thus would be only the L form of it.
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