Because the hydrogen adds to the double bond and the more stable secondary carbocation forms, nucleophilic bromide ion then bonds to it.... You should pick up an organic chem book, will answer all these basic questions for you. Displacement reaction? It's an addition reaction, just read an OC book.
fractal
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 110
mztx
- Larvae
- Posts: 6
0.5:1 H2SO4 (actually, just a hair less than equimolar)
This is a oil / H2SO4 molar ratio?
So the molar ratio would be:
1:2:1.95:2.2 -> Oil:NaBr:H2SO4:KI (or KBr or NaI)
Polonium
- Pupae
- Posts: 70
Are you going to be giving this a try, if so good luck. Those molar ratios seem about right. Im not sure where you got the 2.2 ratio of oil to KI. The KI is used to substitute the bromine for an iodine in bromosafrole. Thhe Finkelstein reaction requires just a slight molar excess of NaI. Use a 1:1.1 molar ratio of bromosafrole to NaI dissolved in dry acetone. Stir it for an hour or two and you should have almost quantitative conversion.
Check out salats writeup on the previous page. She has it laid out nice and clear. How do you plan on aminating the iodosafrole? I haven't tested it but I think there might be easier ways than drying to gas methylamine into dry IPA.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work to dissolve dry Methylamine.HCl in anhydrous IPA. Triethylamine, a nonnucleophilic base can then be added to the ice cold IPA to deprotonate methylamine, forming an dry, concentrated, solution of methylamine freebase in IPA?
I'm not sure if the methylamine will stay in solution once it is freebased, but I imagine it would as long as the alcohol is kept cold. Its something to test out anyways if you have those chems available. Good luck.
Edit:
Just found something similar discussed on the rhodium archive
Edit 2:
It appears that mephedrone is commercial synthesised from the 2-bromo starting material. Below is a writeup from the literature of the amination being carried out with MeNH2.HCl and Et3NH3 in DCM. The yields are are around 70% from the hydrobromide salt in this case. I don't see any reason why iodosafrole would not result in a greater yield. Also the author doesn't use an excess of methylamine which would help improve yield.
Check out salats writeup on the previous page. She has it laid out nice and clear. How do you plan on aminating the iodosafrole? I haven't tested it but I think there might be easier ways than drying to gas methylamine into dry IPA.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work to dissolve dry Methylamine.HCl in anhydrous IPA. Triethylamine, a nonnucleophilic base can then be added to the ice cold IPA to deprotonate methylamine, forming an dry, concentrated, solution of methylamine freebase in IPA?
I'm not sure if the methylamine will stay in solution once it is freebased, but I imagine it would as long as the alcohol is kept cold. Its something to test out anyways if you have those chems available. Good luck.
Edit:
Just found something similar discussed on the rhodium archive
Quote
Treatment of carbonyl compds with methylamine hydrochloride, NEt3 and Ti(IV) isopropoxide, followed by in situ Na borohydride redn. and straightforward aq. work-up, affords clean products in good to excellent yields. An equimolar mixture of methylamine hydrochloride and triethylamine is used as the mathylamine equivalent. This alleviates the use of excess gaseous methylamine.A source of nucleophilic methylamine which avoids the inconvenience of gaseous methylamine is exactly what we want.
A mixture of methylamine hydrochloride and triethylamine has been employed as the source of nucleophilic methylamine. The method conveniently avoids the use of gaseous methylamine, however, the overall reaction was slow.
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/redamin.titanium.html
Edit 2:
It appears that mephedrone is commercial synthesised from the 2-bromo starting material. Below is a writeup from the literature of the amination being carried out with MeNH2.HCl and Et3NH3 in DCM. The yields are are around 70% from the hydrobromide salt in this case. I don't see any reason why iodosafrole would not result in a greater yield. Also the author doesn't use an excess of methylamine which would help improve yield.
Quote
The title compound was prepared using the method reported by Camilleri et al. [9] with the following modifications: to a suspension of (±)-4 -methyl-2-bromopropiophenone (4.54 g, 20 mmol) and methylamine hydrochloride (1.35 g, 20 mmol) in dichloromethane (40 mL) was added triethylamine (5.58 mL, 40 mmol). The mixture was stirred at room temperature overnight and then acidified (pH ? 1) with 6 M hydrochloric acid (50 mL). The aqueous layer was washed with dichloromethane (3 × 50 mL), basified (pH ? 10) with 5 M sodium hydroxide (circa. 100 mL) and then re-extracted with dichloromethane (3 × 50 mL). The combined organic fractions were dried (MgSO4 ) and concentrated in vacuo to give a viscous yellow oil. The oil was dissolved in isopropanol (4 mL), treated with hydrochloric acid (3 M solution in butanol, 10 mL) and stirred at room temperature for 1 h. The mixture was diluted with diethyl ether (150 mL) and stirred to reveal
a pale yellow solid (circa. 30 min). The crude product was filtered, washed with diethyl ether and recrystallised from acetone to give (±)-4 -methylmethcathinone hydrochloride (1.09 g, 51.2%
from 2) as a colourless powder.
Synthesis, full chemical characterisation and development of validated methods for the quantification of (+/-)-4 '-methylmethcathinone (mephedrone) : a new "legal high".
Santali, Eman Y. ; Cadogan, Anna-Karina ; Daeid, Niamh Nic ; Savage, Kathleen A. ; Sutcliffe, Oliver B..
Journal of Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Analysis, Vol. 56, No. 2, 10.09.2011, p. 246-255.
DOI: 10.1016/j.jpba.2011.05.022
salat
- Dominant Queen
- Posts: 276
I've read a lot of stuff on the Amination/SNi reactions. I wish I remembered the half of it.
One thing experience has taught is that any strong base (like fragments of NaOH or KOH) in the mixture screws the whole shebang. There is a delicate balance of acid/base. Like Edison we know what DON'T work.
One thing experience has taught is that any strong base (like fragments of NaOH or KOH) in the mixture screws the whole shebang. There is a delicate balance of acid/base. Like Edison we know what DON'T work.
mztx
- Larvae
- Posts: 6
Thank you Polonium!
I am just curious. The lack of satisfactory writeups makes me reluctant to give it a try. I have very limited resources and only a little knowledge so who knows
The amination would be with NH3 (NH4Cl + NaOH + trap) gassed in dry IPA(tone/dry ice bath).
I am just curious. The lack of satisfactory writeups makes me reluctant to give it a try. I have very limited resources and only a little knowledge so who knows
The amination would be with NH3 (NH4Cl + NaOH + trap) gassed in dry IPA(tone/dry ice bath).
lugh
- Global Moderator
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 876
Quote
I am just curious. The lack of satisfactory writeups makes me reluctant to give it a try. I have very limited resources and only a little knowledge so who knows
The halogenation and amination of alkenes is the oldest and most discussed method:
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,828
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1852
and from way back:
http://parazite.nn.fi/hiveboard/chemistrydiscourse/000189907.html
the amination is second order as described in the attached document Some more examples of substitution-elimination reactions in the chemical literature originally provided by another staff member of the Hive:
Reaction ID 66608
Reactant BRN 1099914 4-(2-amino-ethyl)-phenol
3198812 (S)-2-chloro-3-phenyl-propionic acid
Product BRN 3152223 N-<4-hydroxy-phenethyl>-D-phenylalanine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 2331342; Journal; Kanao; YKKZAJ; Yakugaku Zasshi; 66; 1946; 7;
Chem.Abstr.; 1951; 7957;
Reactant BRN 1098243 propylamine
1719842 4-chloro-pent-2-ene
Product BRN 1744057 <1-methyl-but-2-enyl>-propyl-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 1225405; Patent; I.G.Farbenind.; DE 473215; FTFVA6;
Fortschr.Teerfarbenfabr.Verw.Industriezweige; DE; GE; 16; 2919;
Reaction
Reaction ID 67615
Reactant BRN 1101343 chloromalonic acid diethyl ester
Product BRN 1761207 amino-malonic acid diamide
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent alcohol
ammonia
Ref. 1 1216622; Journal; Conrad; Guthzeit; CHBEAM; Chem.Ber.; 15; 1882;
607;
Reaction ID 98746
Reactant BRN 1209230 3-methyl-butylamine
3198812 (S)-2-chloro-3-phenyl-propionic acid
Product BRN 3207865 N-isopentyl-D-phenylalanine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 2331342; Journal; Kanao; YKKZAJ; Yakugaku Zasshi; 66; 1946; 7;
Chem.Abstr.; 1951; 7957;
Reaction
Reaction ID 163729
Reactant BRN 1633740 tetradecylamine
1731219 3-chloro-butan-1-ol
Product BRN 1763537 3-tetradecylamino-butan-1-ol
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 1265648; Patent; Sowa; US 2874185; 1956;
Reaction
Reaction ID 168061
Reactant BRN 1679227 octylamine
1730782 2-chloro-propane
Product BRN 1736554 isopropyl-octyl-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 1261162; Journal; Grail et al.; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 74; 1952;
1313;
Reaction
Reaction ID 179320
Reactant BRN 1700961 3-chloro-non-1-yne
Product BRN 1745692 1-hexyl-prop-2-ynylamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent diethyl ether
liquid ammonia
sodium amide
Ref. 1 1262373; Journal; Hennion; Teach; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 75;
1953; 1653;
Reaction
Reaction ID 183457
Reactant BRN 1706751 chloroacetyl-<2-chloro-propionyl>-amine
Product BRN 1706872 alanyl-glycyl-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
ammonia
Ref. 1 1215409; Journal; Bergell; Feigl; HSZPAZ; Hoppe-Seyler's
Z.Physiol.Chem.; 54; 1907/1908; 284;
Reaction
Reaction ID 186869
Reactant BRN 1714829
(+-)-2-<2-chloro-propionylamino>-2-<2-amino-propionylamino>-propionic acid
Product BRN 1714818 (+-)-2,2-bis-<2-amino-propionylamino>-propionic
acid
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Temperature 40 øC
Ref. 1 1242940; Journal; Price; Errera; Greenstein; ARBIAE; Arch.Biochem.;
17; 1948; 53;
Reaction
Reaction ID 195302
Reactant BRN 1718880 1,2-dichloro-propane
Product BRN 605274 propane-1,2-diamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details 1 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent NH3
Temperature 100 - 125 øC
Pressure 5.14855*103 - 7.35508*103 Torr
Other conditions in wss.-aethanol. Seifen-Emulsion
Ref. 1 1253248; Journal; Barbieri; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 109; II;
1938; 413;
Ref. 2 1253249; Patent; Barbieri; US 2113640; 1936;
Ref. 3 1253246; Journal; Barbieri; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 108; II;
1937; 857;
Ref. 4 1253250; Patent; Barbieri; US 2078555; 1934;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 2 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Temperature 80 øC
Ref. 1 1253251; Journal; Darzens; COREAF; C.R.Hebd.Seances Acad.Sci.; 208;
1939; 1503;
Reaction
Reaction ID 198295
Reactant BRN 1720345 (+)(S)-3-chloro-heptene-(1)
Product BRN 1720339 (-)(R)-3-amino-heptene-(1)
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent methanol
NH3
Temperature 50 øC
Ref. 1 1236514; Journal; Levene; Rothen; Kuna; JBCHA3; J.Biol.Chem.; 120;
1937; 788;
Reaction
Reaction ID 214270
Reactant BRN 1732091 3-chloro-2-methyl-butan-2-ol
Product BRN 1731865 3-amino-2-methyl-butan-2-ol
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
ammonia
Other conditions unter intermediaerer Bildung von Trimethyl-aethylenoxyd
Ref. 1 1214019; Journal; Krassuski; ZRKOAC; Zh.Russ.Fiz.-Khim.O-va; 40;
1908; 160; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 79; II; 1908; 580;
Ref. 2 1214001; Journal; Krassuski; COREAF; C.R.Hebd.Seances Acad.Sci.;
146; 1908; 238;
Reaction
Reaction ID 223489
Reactant BRN 1739506 3-chloro-hex-1-yne
Product BRN 1739400 1-propyl-prop-2-ynylamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent diethyl ether
liquid ammonia
sodium amide
Ref. 1 1262373; Journal; Hennion; Teach; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 75;
1953; 1653;
Reaction
Reaction ID 230311
Reactant BRN 1746378 2-chloro-tetra-N-ethyl-propane-1,3-diamine
3598719 phthalimide; potassium salt
Product BRN 1701125
N%1&,N%1&,N%3&,N%3&-tetraethyl-propane-1,2,3-triyltriamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Other conditions anschl. Hydrolyse
Ref. 1 1237586; Patent; I.G.Farbenind.; DE 553072; 1930; FTFVA6;
Fortschr.Teerfarbenfabr.Verw.Industriezweige; DE; GE; 19; 1169;
Reaction
Reaction ID 245104
Reactant BRN 1771085 N-<3-chloro-butyryl>-glycine
Product BRN 1771950 N-<3-amino-butyryl>-glycine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent ammonia
Temperature 37 øC
Ref. 1 1227099; Journal; Abderhalden; Fleischmann; FEFOAG;
Fermentforschung; 10; 204; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 100; I; 1929;
2318;
Reaction
Reaction ID 629525
Reactant BRN 505933 ethylamine
1679281 (+-)-5-chloro-hex-3t-en-1-yne
Product BRN 1701677 (+-)-ethyl-<1-methyl-pent-2t-en-4-ynyl>-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent acetonitrile
Ref. 1 1262439; Journal; Bell et al.; JCSOA9; J.Chem.Soc.; 1958;
3195,3199;
Reaction
Reaction ID 686392
Reactant BRN 605269 butylamine
1739506 3-chloro-hex-1-yne
Product BRN 1750898 butyl-<1-propyl-prop-2-ynyl>-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
Ref. 1 1262375; Journal; Hennion; Nelson; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 79;
1957; 2142,2145;
Reaction
Reaction ID 300239
Reactant BRN 2012 2-(1(3)H-imidazol-4-yl)-ethylamine
3198812 (S)-2-chloro-3-phenyl-propionic acid
Product BRN 28629 N-<2-(1(3)H-imidazol-4-yl)-ethyl>-D-phenylalanine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aq. NaOH solution
Ref. 1 670007; Journal; Kanao; YKKZAJ; Yakugaku Zasshi; 66; 1946;
Ausg.B,S.21; Chem.Abstr.; 1951; 7957;Reaction
Reaction ID 633508
Reactant BRN 505944 2-amino-ethanol
2439204 <2-chloro-propyl>-phenyl sulfide
Product BRN 3050471 2-<$b-phenylsulfanyl-isopropylamino>-ethanol
-------------------------
Reaction Details 1 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 1614848; Patent; Smith, Kline & French Labor.; US 2774770; 1951;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 2 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Ref. 1 80429; Journal; Lamdan,S. et al.; JMCMAR; J.Med.Chem.; EN; 9; 1966;
79-83;
Reaction
Reaction ID 778085
Reactant BRN 741984 benzylamine
1732262 1-ethylsulfanyl-2-chloro-propane
Product BRN 3253689 <$b-ethylsulfanyl-isopropyl>-benzyl-amine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent sodium carbonate
ethanol
Ref. 1 1931997; Journal; Dawson; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 55; 1933;
2070,2073;Reaction
Reaction ID 1085063
Reactant BRN 2131366 1,2,2,2-tetrachloro-N-benzyloxycarbonylethylamine
3594034 glycine ethyl ester; hydrochloride
Product BRN 2545300 C14H17Cl3N2O4
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent Et3N
Solvent CH2Cl2
Ref. 1 38757; Journal; Weygand,F. et al.; CHBEAM; Chem.Ber.; GE; 99; 1966;
1944-1956;Reaction
Reaction ID 1165651
Reactant BRN 385626 isobutylamine
606150 N-(1,2,2,2-tetrachloro-ethyl)-formamide
Product BRN 2442727 C7H13Cl3N2O
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent Et3N
Ref. 1 2747; Journal; Chamberlain,K.; Summers,L.A.; AJCHAS; Aust.J.Chem.;
EN; 27; 1974; 1579-1583;Reaction
Reaction ID 1222543
Reactant BRN 505933 ethylamine
2383945 C16H12ClNO2
Product BRN 2751727 C18H18N2O2
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent KI
Solvent ethanol
Ref. 1 400524; Patent; Man. Prod. Pharm.; FR 7059; 1969; FR; Chem.Abstr.;
EN; 75; 5571; 1971;Reaction
Reaction ID 1225599
Reactant BRN 505944 2-amino-ethanol
1737450 2-chloro-tetra-N-methyl-propane-1,3-diamine
Product BRN 1923251 C9H23N3O
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent NaI
Solvent toluene
Ref. 1 276183; Journal; Korshunov,M.A. et al.; JOCYA9; J.Org.Chem.USSR
(Engl.Transl.); EN; 5; 11; 1969; 1893-1898; ZORKAE; Zh.Org.Khim.; RU; 5;
11; 1969; 1947-1952;Reaction
Reaction ID 1287632
Reactant BRN 605269 butylamine
2383945 C16H12ClNO2
Product BRN 2759251 C20H22N2O2
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent KI
Solvent ethanol
Ref. 1 400524; Patent; Man. Prod. Pharm.; FR 7059; 1969; FR; Chem.Abstr.;
EN; 75; 5571; 1971;
Reaction
Reaction ID 1290438
Reactant BRN 605292 (2-chloro-propyl)-dimethyl-amine
741851 methylamine
Product BRN 2343783 C6H16N2
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent K2CO3, Cu
Solvent H2O
Ref. 1 174162; Journal; Elslager,E.F. et al.; JOCEAH; J.Org.Chem.; EN; 26;
1961; 2837-2841;
Reaction
Reaction ID 1386440
Reactant BRN 741851 methylamine
1719769 (+-)-erythro-3,4-dichloro-butane-1,2-diol
Product BRN 6090719 C6H16N2O2
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Solvent H2O
Ref. 1 4963; Journal; Meyer,H.R.; Gabler,R.; HCACAV; Helv.Chim.Acta; GE;
46; 1963; 2685-2697;
Reaction
Reaction ID 2137859
Reactant BRN 2410916 (R)-1-phenyl-ethylamine
5327618 (2S,3R)-3-chloro-4-pentene-1,2-diol
Product BRN 5376547 (2R,3S)-3-isopropylamino-3-pentene-1,2-diol
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Yield 88. (BRN=5376547)
Other conditions a) 5d, room temperature, 2) 20h, reflux
Ref. 1 5649566; Journal; Jaeger, Volker; Stahl, Ulrich; Huemmer, Walter;
SYNTBF; Synthesis; EN; 9; 1991; 776-782;
Reaction
Reaction ID 2274927
Reactant BRN 3594034 glycine ethyl ester; hydrochloride
5997675
N-cyclohexyl-N-methyl-4-<3-(1-chloroethyl)-4-nitrophenoxy>butyramide
Product BRN 6019289 C23H35N3O6
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent 1.) NH3, 2.) N,N-diisopropylethylamine, NaI
Other conditions 1.) CHCl3, 2.) EtOH, reflux, 48 h
Note 1 Yield given. Multistep reaction
Ref. 1 5747251; Journal; Venuti, Michael C.; Jones, Gordon H.; Alvarez,
Robert; Bruno, John J.; JMCMAR; J.Med.Chem.; EN; 30; 2; 1987; 303-318;
Reaction
Reaction ID 3295064
Reactant BRN 605259 isopropylamine
5572984 C15H20ClNO3
Product BRN 5678647 C18H28N2O3*ClH
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent NaI
Solvent ethanol
Yield 42. (BRN=5678647)
Other conditions Heating
Ref. 1 5670746; Journal; Depreux, Patrick; Marcincal-Lefebvre, Annie;
Brunet, Claude; EJMCA5; Eur.J.Med.Chem.Chim.Ther.; EN; 22; 1987; 75-78;
Reaction
Reaction ID 3730829
Reactant BRN 741851 methylamine
1227116
8-chloro-1-(1-chloro-ethyl)-6-phenyl-4H-benzo<;f><1,2,4>triazolo<4,3-a><1,4>diazepine
Product BRN 5628807 C19H18ClN5
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent KI
Solvent tetrahydrofuran
methanol
Time 18 hour(s)
Yield 73. (BRN=5628807)
Other conditions Ambient temperature
Ref. 1 5697441; Journal; Hester, Jackson B.; Rudzik, Allan D.;
VonVoigtlander, Philip F.; JMCMAR; J.Med.Chem.; EN; 23; 4; 1980; 392-402;
Reaction
Reaction ID 179320
Reactant BRN 1700961 3-chloro-non-1-yne
Product BRN 1745692 1-hexyl-prop-2-ynylamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent diethyl ether
liquid ammonia
sodium amide
Ref. 1 1262373; Journal; Hennion; Teach; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; 75;
1953; 1653;
Reaction
Reaction ID 186869
Reactant BRN 1714829
(+-)-2-<2-chloro-propionylamino>-2-<2-amino-propionylamino>-propionic acid
Product BRN 1714818 (+-)-2,2-bis-<2-amino-propionylamino>-propionic
acid
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Temperature 40 øC
Ref. 1 1242940; Journal; Price; Errera; Greenstein; ARBIAE; Arch.Biochem.;
17; 1948; 53;
Reaction
Reaction ID 195302
Reactant BRN 1718880 1,2-dichloro-propane
Product BRN 605274 propane-1,2-diamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details 1 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent NH3
Temperature 100 - 125 øC
Pressure 5.14855*103 - 7.35508*103 Torr
Other conditions in wss.-aethanol. Seifen-Emulsion
Ref. 1 1253248; Journal; Barbieri; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 109; II;
1938; 413;
Ref. 2 1253249; Patent; Barbieri; US 2113640; 1936;
Ref. 3 1253246; Journal; Barbieri; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 108; II;
1937; 857;
Ref. 4 1253250; Patent; Barbieri; US 2078555; 1934;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 2 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Temperature 80 øC
Ref. 1 1253251; Journal; Darzens; COREAF; C.R.Hebd.Seances Acad.Sci.; 208;
1939; 1503;
Reaction
Reaction ID 198295
Reactant BRN 1720345 (+)(S)-3-chloro-heptene-(1)
Product BRN 1720339 (-)(R)-3-amino-heptene-(1)
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent methanol
NH3
Temperature 50 øC
Ref. 1 1236514; Journal; Levene; Rothen; Kuna; JBCHA3; J.Biol.Chem.; 120;
1937; 788;
Reaction
Reaction ID 245104
Reactant BRN 1771085 N-<3-chloro-butyryl>-glycine
Product BRN 1771950 N-<3-amino-butyryl>-glycine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent ammonia
Temperature 37 øC
Ref. 1 1227099; Journal; Abderhalden; Fleischmann; FEFOAG;
Fermentforschung; 10; 204; CHZEA6; Chem.Zentralbl.; GE; 100; I; 1929;
2318;
Reaction
Reaction ID 249193
Reactant BRN 1780706 2-chloro-octanedioic acid
Product BRN 1780545 2-amino-octanedioic acid
-------------------------
Reaction Details 1 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Ref. 1 1273303; Journal; Freidlina et al.; IASKA6; Izv.Akad.Nauk SSSR
Ser.Khim.; 1959; 826,829; engl.Ausg.S.800,802;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 2 of 2
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aq. NH3
Ref. 1 86581; Journal; Nesmeyanov,A.N. et al.; TETRAB; Tetrahedron; EN;
17; 1962; 69-77;
Reaction
Reaction ID 260252
Reactant BRN 1812476 2-<2-chloro-propionylamino>-acrylic acid
Product BRN 1708121 2-<DL-2-amino-propionylamino>-acrylic acid
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent water
NH3
Temperature 5 øC
Other conditions (anfangs bei 5grad)
Ref. 1 1242941; Journal; Price; Greenstein; JBCHA3; J.Biol.Chem.; 171;
1947; 479;
Reaction
Reaction ID 438705
Reactant BRN 3198813 (+-)-2-chloro-3-phenyl-propionic acid
Product BRN 1910407 phenylalanine
-------------------------
Reaction Details 1 of 3
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent <NH4>2CO3
aqueous NH3
Ref. 1 2344288; Journal; Jurkewitsch et al.; ZOKHA4; Zh.Obshch.Khim.; 28;
1958; 227, 228; engl. Ausg. S. 226, 227;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 2 of 3
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent liquid NH3
Ref. 1 2344288; Journal; Jurkewitsch et al.; ZOKHA4; Zh.Obshch.Khim.; 28;
1958; 227, 228; engl. Ausg. S. 226, 227;
-------------------------
Reaction Details 3 of 3
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aqueous NH3
Ref. 1 2344289; Journal; Freidlina et al.; IASKA6; Izv.Akad.Nauk SSSR
Ser.Khim.; 1959; 826, 827; engl. Ausg. S. 800, 801;
Reaction
Reaction ID 476624
Reactant BRN 3299699 chloro-<3,4-dimethoxy-phenyl>-acetic acid amide
Product BRN 3531358 amino-<3,4-dimethoxy-phenyl>-acetic acid amide
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent chloroform
ammonia
Ref. 1 2333483; Journal; Hahn; Stiehl; Schulz; CHBEAM; Chem.Ber.; 72;
1939; 1291, 1298;
Reaction
Reaction ID 994710
Reactant BRN 1719482 4-chloro-pent-1-ene
Product BRN 1734238 1-methyl-but-3-enylamine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Other conditions (i) Mg, (ii) NH2OMe
Note 1 Multistep reaction
Ref. 1 49274; Journal; Silver,M.S. et al.; JACSAT; J.Amer.Chem.Soc.; EN;
82; 1960; 2646-2647;Reaction
Reaction ID 998404
Reactant BRN 1725153 (-)(2S:3S)-3-chloro-2-hydroxy-succinic acid
Product BRN 2046210 (2S,3R)-2-amino-3-hydroxy-succinic acid
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aq. NH3
Ref. 1 106497; Journal; Kaneko,T.; Katsura,H.; BCSJA8; Bull.Chem.Soc.Jpn.;
EN; 36; 8; 1963; 899-903;
Reaction
Reaction ID 1021571
Reactant BRN 1752368 2-chloro-3-methoxy-propionic acid
Product BRN 2498642 O-methylserine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aq. NH3
Ref. 1 86581; Journal; Nesmeyanov,A.N. et al.; TETRAB; Tetrahedron; EN;
17; 1962; 69-77;
Reaction
Reaction ID 1707751
Reactant BRN 1227116
8-chloro-1-(1-chloro-ethyl)-6-phenyl-4H-benzo<;f><1,2,4>triazolo<4,3-a><1,4>diazepine
Product BRN 5618264 C18H16ClN5
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent KI, NH3
Solvent tetrahydrofuran
methanol
Time 72 hour(s)
Yield 31. (BRN=5618264)
Temperature 25 øC
Ref. 1 5697441; Journal; Hester, Jackson B.; Rudzik, Allan D.;
VonVoigtlander, Philip F.; JMCMAR; J.Med.Chem.; EN; 23; 4; 1980; 392-402;
Reaction
Reaction ID 3154617
Reactant BRN 5618531 C18H14Cl2N4
Product BRN 5618290 C18H16ClN5
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent NH3, KI
Solvent tetrahydrofuran
methanol
Time 6 day(s)
Yield 45.9 (BRN=5618290)
Temperature 25 øC
Ref. 1 5697441; Journal; Hester, Jackson B.; Rudzik, Allan D.;
VonVoigtlander, Philip F.; JMCMAR; J.Med.Chem.; EN; 23; 4; 1980;
392-402;Reaction
Reaction ID 3789167
Reactant BRN 773799 2-chloro-propionic acid
Product BRN 635807 alanine
-------------------------
Reaction Details
Reaction Classification Preparation
Reagent aq. ammonia
Time 5 hour(s)
Yield 46. (BRN=635807)
Temperature 70 øC
Ref. 1 5746000; Journal; Ogata, Yoshiro; Inaishi, Morio; BCSJA8;
Bull.Chem.Soc.Jpn.; EN; 54; 11; 1981; 3605-3606;
------------------
-the good reverend drone
The end results from the effort applied
mztx
- Larvae
- Posts: 6
Hi lugh,
I already know these threads and others scattered around the net.
Where I said "satisfactory writeups" I should have said "happy ending writeups". I regret the lack of precision in my writings generated by my linguistic deficiencies.
In other words, I have not found examples where newbies like me end up getting what they want.
Anyway thanks for reply and info.
I already know these threads and others scattered around the net.
Where I said "satisfactory writeups" I should have said "happy ending writeups". I regret the lack of precision in my writings generated by my linguistic deficiencies.
In other words, I have not found examples where newbies like me end up getting what they want.
Anyway thanks for reply and info.
salat
- Dominant Queen
- Posts: 276
Bright star's writeup gives you a good idea of the level of effort it takes to achieve what you want.
Been learning chemistry for about 2 years now (have a chemist on hand who teaches me stuff like distilling and insulating the condensor etc - he wrote the writeups I posted). Finally to the point where when things go wrong I can figure out what to do, but can still make foolish mistakes that cost me weeks worth of work.
I had to laugh at myself - once turned 50 ml oil into ~3 liters oil/water - not used to working at that small scale is all I can say. Then finally got to the point where a bisulfite was the best option for purifying such a small amount and damned if I didn't wind up with flasks full of it. (TCM contaminated with acetone) Was easy enough to remedy but dang sulfur stinks. It's like loaves and fishes with me.
There's too much to really writeup, stuff happens. Like when I woke up to extract from a completed NaBH4 reaction with an organic solvent and got 3 layers. Was so proud of myself for figuring it out - must have used too much GAA to neutralize it so added some base and voila 2 layers! Aren't you mom's out there proud!!
Salat
Been learning chemistry for about 2 years now (have a chemist on hand who teaches me stuff like distilling and insulating the condensor etc - he wrote the writeups I posted). Finally to the point where when things go wrong I can figure out what to do, but can still make foolish mistakes that cost me weeks worth of work.
I had to laugh at myself - once turned 50 ml oil into ~3 liters oil/water - not used to working at that small scale is all I can say. Then finally got to the point where a bisulfite was the best option for purifying such a small amount and damned if I didn't wind up with flasks full of it. (TCM contaminated with acetone) Was easy enough to remedy but dang sulfur stinks. It's like loaves and fishes with me.
There's too much to really writeup, stuff happens. Like when I woke up to extract from a completed NaBH4 reaction with an organic solvent and got 3 layers. Was so proud of myself for figuring it out - must have used too much GAA to neutralize it so added some base and voila 2 layers! Aren't you mom's out there proud!!
Salat
Electro´S
- Pupae
- Posts: 95
HI all!!!!
The last night i was dreaming about "the Jon method".
6 gr of oil was bad brominated, then the finkelstein swap was made and finally the iodo compound was aminated under Delepine.
The yield was so bad, but for the first time I product!!!
.................................
The end results from the effort applied
The last night i was dreaming about "the Jon method".
6 gr of oil was bad brominated, then the finkelstein swap was made and finally the iodo compound was aminated under Delepine.
The yield was so bad, but for the first time I product!!!
.................................
The end results from the effort applied
Sedit
- Global Moderator
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 2,099
Steric hindrance prevents the Delepine reaction from working correctly and this was proven back at the hive repeatedly. Use Methylamine instead.
carl_nnabis
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 245
Damned i just lost the full reply when automatically getting logged out!
I have not said you do, but you have to become more than just a newbee to actually have success, that involves you could answer some questions after looking for them yourself, and this is the effort that it takes to achieve what you want.
I have read everything i could get my hands on, nobody to ask, no one to talk about, and useing actual organic chemistry books borrowed from the library, and rhodiums archive too to get a look into both sides of praticing chemistry.
It could have made me able to compare what is bullshit and what is not, to success when i dreamed for the very first unbelievable time after nearly a year of theory (but i like the theoretic part as well and you should too).
Eventually, when i had a two year enduring training as a chemisty laboratory assistant a few years ago I possibly was able to do everything for the pratical part at the start of it because i have learned and teached it myself, that made me to realise how far I really got into it.
Actually I think to have such a forum behind his back would have made it a lot harder to start successful
But back on topic:
The delepine reaction suffers from steric hinderance? But this contributes to the large molecule that hexamine is, I guess? Because delepine-alike reactions with an amine do not as you said so this is probably the case.
Quote
In other words, I have not found examples where newbies like me end up getting what they want.It is because they usually dont when they need to be spoon fed
Anyway thanks for reply and info.
I have not said you do, but you have to become more than just a newbee to actually have success, that involves you could answer some questions after looking for them yourself, and this is the effort that it takes to achieve what you want.
Bright star's writeup gives you a good idea of the level of effort it takes to achieve what you want.Totally agreed
I have read everything i could get my hands on, nobody to ask, no one to talk about, and useing actual organic chemistry books borrowed from the library, and rhodiums archive too to get a look into both sides of praticing chemistry.
It could have made me able to compare what is bullshit and what is not, to success when i dreamed for the very first unbelievable time after nearly a year of theory (but i like the theoretic part as well and you should too).
Eventually, when i had a two year enduring training as a chemisty laboratory assistant a few years ago I possibly was able to do everything for the pratical part at the start of it because i have learned and teached it myself, that made me to realise how far I really got into it.
Actually I think to have such a forum behind his back would have made it a lot harder to start successful
But back on topic:
The delepine reaction suffers from steric hinderance? But this contributes to the large molecule that hexamine is, I guess? Because delepine-alike reactions with an amine do not as you said so this is probably the case.
mztx
- Larvae
- Posts: 6
Damned i just lost the full reply when automatically getting logged out!QuoteIn other words, I have not found examples where newbies like me end up getting what they want.It is because they usually dont when they need to be spoon fed
Anyway thanks for reply and info.
I have not said you do, but you have to become more than just a newbee to actually have success, that involves you could answer some questions after looking for them yourself, and this is the effort that it takes to achieve what you want.Bright star's writeup gives you a good idea of the level of effort it takes to achieve what you want.Totally agreed
I have read everything i could get my hands on, nobody to ask, no one to talk about, and useing actual organic chemistry books borrowed from the library, and rhodiums archive too to get a look into both sides of praticing chemistry.
It could have made me able to compare what is bullshit and what is not, to success when i dreamed for the very first unbelievable time after nearly a year of theory (but i like the theoretic part as well and you should too).
Eventually, when i had a two year enduring training as a chemisty laboratory assistant a few years ago I possibly was able to do everything for the pratical part at the start of it because i have learned and teached it myself, that made me to realise how far I really got into it.
Actually I think to have such a forum behind his back would have made it a lot harder to start successful
[...]
Thanks for the thoughts and opinions. I definitely put in place.
T-cowboy
- Pupae
- Posts: 57
Polonium: Wouldnt water/heat be created in reacting triethylamine with methylamine.hcl`? Then i guess this route wouldnt be viable.
HOw would one go about that reaction?
Cold IPA-->Methylamine.hcl--->Triethylamine ( in situ freebase Meam) ?
HOw would one go about that reaction?
Cold IPA-->Methylamine.hcl--->Triethylamine ( in situ freebase Meam) ?
carl_nnabis
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 245
hmmm i dont have the specific pka in mind, but i guess triethylamine is a weaker base than methylamine and will not work for this one...
And even if it would work (it DOES NOT!) you would end up getting a cloud of methylamine gas puffing in the air and a chunk of triethylammoniumchloride and this is undesirable
but try my method of choice for getting any dry solid salt of a gaseous amine in waterfree (better called "most-waterlessened-without-gassing"), it has to be dried using anhydrous K-/Na2CO3 afterwards.
I would first make an alcoholic lye of known concentration with best possible dried KOH (preferably KOH, its better soluble in alcohol than NaOH) in dry alcohol of avaibility (here MeOH=methanol is prefered albeit ethanol and IPA will work too).
The alcohol hasnt to be bone-dried to its maximum, so it is really convenient if its done with a mixture 1:2 of Na2CO3:Na2SO4 overnight.
because the KOH itself also has some drying properties too that should not be left out remember about this one!
Now dissolve your dry amine salt you know how soluble they are as salt, chill both solutions in an ice bath, better some salt/ice bath (fertilizer salts get really cold if you need to get so deep), add your alcoholic lye to your alcoholic amine salt
slowly and you will get a precipitate or may not (in methanol never), filter off and:
use your now superfantastic-smellfreeproduced freebase-amine solution in most waterlessenest alcohol of known concentration as you would usual!
For sure its the most conveniest way to do this in situ, way better than messing around with the gas.
simply calculate for example you want 1 mol methylamine freebase in 1 liter methanol you would dissolve KOH and methylamine in like a half liter both, one mol each like this:
MeNH2*HCl (68,52g/mol) + KOH (56,11g/mol) -> 31,06g MeNH2 (1mol) as freebase in alcohol...
and the side reaction gives 74,55g KCl (1 mol) + about 18g H2O
so thats why you have to dry the alcohol twice, before and after the freebase is in it, at least its really needed afterwards.
but hey better non-smelly drying, still way more practical and convenient than to create some fishycloud everyone will recognize, and as usual especially your neighbours may have to ask you some questions about
(BTW where are puke and fishy smilies to put in here for the case MeNH2 is mentioned?? )
And even if it would work (it DOES NOT!) you would end up getting a cloud of methylamine gas puffing in the air and a chunk of triethylammoniumchloride and this is undesirable
but try my method of choice for getting any dry solid salt of a gaseous amine in waterfree (better called "most-waterlessened-without-gassing"), it has to be dried using anhydrous K-/Na2CO3 afterwards.
I would first make an alcoholic lye of known concentration with best possible dried KOH (preferably KOH, its better soluble in alcohol than NaOH) in dry alcohol of avaibility (here MeOH=methanol is prefered albeit ethanol and IPA will work too).
The alcohol hasnt to be bone-dried to its maximum, so it is really convenient if its done with a mixture 1:2 of Na2CO3:Na2SO4 overnight.
because the KOH itself also has some drying properties too that should not be left out remember about this one!
Now dissolve your dry amine salt you know how soluble they are as salt, chill both solutions in an ice bath, better some salt/ice bath (fertilizer salts get really cold if you need to get so deep), add your alcoholic lye to your alcoholic amine salt
slowly and you will get a precipitate or may not (in methanol never), filter off and:
use your now superfantastic-smellfreeproduced freebase-amine solution in most waterlessenest alcohol of known concentration as you would usual!
For sure its the most conveniest way to do this in situ, way better than messing around with the gas.
simply calculate for example you want 1 mol methylamine freebase in 1 liter methanol you would dissolve KOH and methylamine in like a half liter both, one mol each like this:
MeNH2*HCl (68,52g/mol) + KOH (56,11g/mol) -> 31,06g MeNH2 (1mol) as freebase in alcohol...
and the side reaction gives 74,55g KCl (1 mol) + about 18g H2O
so thats why you have to dry the alcohol twice, before and after the freebase is in it, at least its really needed afterwards.
but hey better non-smelly drying, still way more practical and convenient than to create some fishycloud everyone will recognize, and as usual especially your neighbours may have to ask you some questions about
(BTW where are puke and fishy smilies to put in here for the case MeNH2 is mentioned?? )
carl_nnabis
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 245
Quote
Best practical Sn2 writeup I've seenthank you!
Quote
My only concern would be the KCl byproduct...Sorry methanol is absolut non-otc to get here but if concentrated ethanolic lye is used in a good ice-bath and slow addition this one is covered;D
anyway, i prefer to use pre-dried denatured ethanol with maybe 1% H2O left, which dissolves like ~3,5 mol NaOH in a liter,thats like 150gram or such, maybe an option if its more easily avaible? Ethanol has to be warmed a bit to get the NaOH to dissolve complete. I usually would saturate it simply, warm up to get it in, and then cool it under 20°C, let stand one day undisturbed where it is around 20°Celsius, and then simply decant from everything thats left if there was anything.
just remember if you use it saturated that a few milliliter of this saturated ethanolic lye can free some few liter methylamine-gas from dried salt if spilled around.
Always remember the stronger caustic material is added to the lesser, not otherwise round if one has to do so, to avoid it from reacting violent
And the sulfate/carbonate mixture (2 part sulfate, 1 carbonate) is only useful for the alcoholic freebase solution, as it helps drying especially for alkaline material. was from both anhydrous salt mixed just because i thought i wont hurt anyway so why not then?
ImAMANGUYS
- Pupae
- Posts: 84
hmmm i dont have the specific pka in mind, but i guess triethylamine is a weaker base than methylamine and will not work for this one...
And even if it would work (it DOES NOT!) you would end up getting a cloud of methylamine gas puffing in the air and a chunk of triethylammoniumchloride and this is undesirable
As pollunium added refrences, what are your sources for your assertion that this documented amination doesnt work?
carl_nnabis
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 245
i just guessed that triethylamine is a less strong base (pkB=3,25), but it actually just a tiny bit stronger than methylamine with a pkB=3,38, so my assumption was wrong and this would indeed work.
sorry for that mistake
sorry for that mistake
Wizard X
- Lord of the Realms
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,224
While triethylamine is commonly employed in organic synthesis as a base, and other applications, I would NOT consider it as a reagent to freebase methylamine.HCl
The cost, compared to NaOH or KOH and, the hazard (Explosive limits, exposure) isn't justified.
The cost, compared to NaOH or KOH and, the hazard (Explosive limits, exposure) isn't justified.
Sedit
- Global Moderator
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 2,099
While triethylamine is commonly employed in organic synthesis as a base, and other applications, I would NOT consider it as a reagent to freebase methylamine.HCl
The cost, compared to NaOH or KOH and, the hazard (Explosive limits, exposure) isn't justified.
Its not about cost its about being able to free the methylamine without the creation of H2O.
carl_nnabis
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 245
Even then I would compared to the price of alkali hydroxides and a bottle of anhydrous drying agent vs that of triethylamine always prefer the first, water can be removed anyway while storing, if you dont have to use it immediately.
I know the triethylamine can be restored, yes but!
t-cowboy suggested ipa as solvent, i guess the triethylamine*HCl is almost soluble in that as it is as freebase, so you have to deal with that too.
Better make some cool nitroalcohols with that Et3N
I know the triethylamine can be restored, yes but!
t-cowboy suggested ipa as solvent, i guess the triethylamine*HCl is almost soluble in that as it is as freebase, so you have to deal with that too.
Better make some cool nitroalcohols with that Et3N