Author Topic: Z-drugs  (Read 230 times)

student

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Z-drugs
« on: March 16, 2011, 02:32:28 AM »
Has anyone considered analogues of Z-Drugs like zolpidem or zaleplon? After googling I haven't turned up anything on the topic. A Z-drug analogue could potentially be a completely legal hypnotic since the z-drugs are class IV. I know a lot of people don't find them recreational, but I find zolpidem quite nice. I've also come across mention of zaleplon being used as an LSD potentiator. Maybe someone with pharmacology knowledge will hypothesize a change in structure that will not compromise activity. Thoughts?

akcom

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 03:45:42 AM »
This looks like the most reasonable way to get it.  To be honest though, it's probably one of those things you're just better off buying in bulk from china.

Happyman

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 05:08:00 AM »
^OP Relevant to my interests^

This divides zolpidem and zalephlon into different chemical categories. h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonbenzodiazepine

Tsathoggua

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 03:52:18 AM »
One would have to be careful experimenting with something unknown thus far, in case one accidentally ended up with a GABA antagonist, or something even funkier. For instance, IIRC there are kappa-agonist benzos, as well as AMPAr antagonist 2,3-benzodiazepines, and I think, possibly, selective antagonists for AMPARs in the barbiturate class also, most barbs act as AMPA antagonists of a sort, stabilising AMPA receptors in a glutamate-bound, desensitized state, worryingly, with a very, very VERY long washout time (long enough to make me think it may require endocytosis and resynthesis of the receptor, 300 second wash time failing to remove more than a few percent, less than 20% by far in a patch-clamp evaluation of pentabarb) and there was the very concerning incident a while back with the release of methylmethaqualone, which caused muscle tremors, twitching and would likely cause siezures in many people, or at sufficient dose, AMPA antagonism for instance could potentially cause PERMANENT damage, ala domoic acid, which selectively fries the hippocampus, and buggers up muscarinic ACh receptor-bearing neurons coexpressing AMPARs located in the prefrontal cortex/basal ganglia, and causes potentially/likely permanent damage to both, resulting in severe, permanent inability to learn, form new memories, also personality changes and can wipe out executive function.

Also flurothyl, an oddball amongst the fluoroethers, in that it isn't an anaesthetic, but a GABAa antagonist (or inverse agonist, not sure which) and thus panicogen and convulsant.

So treat carefully, working up from a very, very small, submilligram quantity of any new Z-drug derivative and have somebody else on hand with the ability to quickly administer an IV or IM shot of a GABAa agonist. Would be scary indeed to accidentally end up with a competitive antagonist or inverse agonist, or worse, glutamatergic neurotoxin, the former could easily prove lethal in sufficient doses, and at the very best would prove to be a hideously unpleasant experience, I.E delirium tremens-inducing, psychosis producing, epileptogenic panicogen, the latter on the other hand, could do worse than kill you, but instead leave the user a literally permafried mindless zombie, but still alive-ish nevertheless.

Although there have been benzo derivatives discovered that are interesting GABAa antagonists, in that they are subtype-selective, and there are some that are weak partial inverse agonists at some of the more amnesic subunit-containing heteropentamers, such as alpha1betaX and alpha5betaX binding sites, whilst not being panicogens or convulsants, but instead, at some doses, possibly useable as nootropics, although one would have to take care with how much was used, and what if anything it was taken with.
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jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 01:58:50 AM »
i'm a poster child for the crippling effects of benzos and such.
after a stroke and a good case of epilepsy i'm just not as sharp as i once was.
seemingly benign drugs can wreck your life.

Sedit

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 02:13:17 AM »
Jon you do understand that most chemically induced strokes are due to opiate use and not associated with Benzodiazapines right? I would look more towards any and all opiates you have ever taken and see if there is a link between the time of withdrawl and the time of the stroke since they normally are within about 2-3 days of each other. You where lucky enough to survive withdrawl where as many are not.

I do have concerns about benzos but strokes are not one of them.
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jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 02:45:04 AM »
no they give morphine to stroke patients.
what happens in severe benzo withdrawal is exactly what happens in the dt's

Sedit

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 03:02:15 AM »
So, Opiate withdrawl is known to alter blood pressure enough to induce strokes, heart attacks, and change brain chemistry in a way that causes epilepsy. Not saying its definitively the cause but if your like me you would want to know more and look at various options when it comes to the root cause.


Notice im stating the withdrawl is the bad part and your stating they administer it to calm the stroke. There in lies the difference between our two views. Also makes me think that administration prior to a stroke could possibly prevent it on some levels.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 03:07:30 AM »
actually i took some morphine before i stroked out so it probably saved my life.
benzo withdrawal causes an adrenergic storm to ensue and easily causes strokes it's the same as DT's only different substances.
far more deadly than opiate withdrawal would ever be.

student

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 03:27:27 AM »
Jon, were using that loperamide ester around that time?

jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 02:26:02 PM »
no i just took some morphine i had been off klonopin about 6 days.
 being a long acting benzo i later found out that's when it shows it's teeth.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 10:16:39 PM »
Been there, done that, benzo, or worse, GBL, or worse still, barb withdrawal is hell. That doc who suddenly cut you off jon, fuck, that cunt needs dealing with in a most unpleasant manner,

I'd be sticking him on benzos for a few years then dosing him with circutoxin and leaving the fucker to die, or rather, just short of die, and leaving him a mess for the rest of his life.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 03:45:54 AM »
yes it's easier said than done.
you can't sue in some states, i'm learning that these people also enjoy civil immunity.

this aptly describes the type of doctor were talking about

http://violentcontradiction.blogspot.com/search/label/Dr.%20Matthew%20Thomas
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 03:47:28 AM by jon »

Tsathoggua

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 05:48:06 AM »
Damn...how the fuck can they get away with shite like that in a western country. Jesus.

Looks like its time to burn his house down while he sleeps.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

jon

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 07:39:09 AM »
Quote
Damn...how the fuck can they get away with shite like that in a western country. Jesus.


simple explanation congress is for sale and the insurance industry is the most profitable in the world.
more explained

http://www.saynotocaps.org/factsandfigures.shtml

besides i would'nt want to kill the man's family that would be unjust.


but your right the constitution is null and void at one time there was a 7th amendment which afforded a man a redress of grievance by trial by jury.
this has been done away with by economic caps and other fine print laws.
the intention of a civil justice system is to keep society civil and prevent 'street justice'
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 07:42:44 AM by jon »

salat

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Re: Z-drugs
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2011, 11:24:42 AM »
I didn't know you couldn't sue psychiatrists for malpractice - I'd have liked to have sued the one who sent my husband home after he tried to OD on valium + Everclear.  Is the reason I have PTSD - you try taking care of psychiatric patients at home with no taper.  Guess I'm lucky the withdrawal didn't kill him.

Salat
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