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Author Topic: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.  (Read 423 times)

Shake

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Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« on: March 24, 2011, 05:29:51 AM »
I posted this at my last home but that place is baron these days

This really needs a look at guys if i am right about this then it will be huge.

Saf is an alkene - Alkene to alcohol hydration - easy.... ZWIT back in the day did it, but had no hope of getting the alcohol to the ketone.. i think electrochem is the way here.. here is zwits post but it is not important and he really rants on.

http://www.oocities.org/methamphetamine_x/zwit.mdma2.txt

I think mdp2propanol is the alcoholic safrol..

Hydration of an alkene
   Alkene + water  in acidic solution - alcohol
   Acid acts as catalyst in rxn
   –OH group adds to larger side (more substituted side) of alkene

THEN

Alcohol oxidation to ketone (please double check the link below) with nearly quantitive yields using ideally NICKLE ELECTRODES (coins in your pocket are more than likely nickel plated which should do.

I got the reference out of this electrochemsitry book Let me know your thoughts

PAGE 178 ELECTROCHEM - OXIDATION OF SECONDARY ALCOHOLS,

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=vN0Y7KMGqNcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=electro+chemistry+alkenes+ketones&source=bl&ots=Pm12YFwtsz&sig=KZ96Tw3dL2ufoHel0gwanuCYXpc&hl=en&ei=pruJTfC2NsKecJiy-cIM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=oxidation%20alcohols&f=false
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 05:34:45 AM by Shake »

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 10:12:11 AM »
it's not that simple you can't just add water across the double bond what happens is it is in equilibrium between addition and elimination then it eliminates to the energetically favorable isosafrole and this in turn gets hydrated.
yeah sure looks good on paper not gonna work
if you want brominate it then boil it in water.

Shake

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 11:32:02 AM »
thankyou for the reply jon much appreciated

back to the drawing board then i guess haha

Zwit aka elusis post claims he made mdp2propanol with sulfuric.. the link is above. do you think he was just plain wrong?

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 03:59:35 PM »
man let me tell you elusis is no real chemist he cant even so stochiometry
talk to some real chemists.
stick around i'll show yu around from safrole but in  due time.

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 04:53:24 PM »
let me tell u there are a few good chemists here the best was naf1 god bless him im pissed he's gone because he was one hell of a guy.

Vesp

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 06:52:34 PM »
He absolutely was, It makes me upset - but no one knows what happened..and I'm really hoping I will eventually see him again in the next years or so... :(
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Sedit

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 04:25:27 AM »
Any word on Naf? PM me if needed,

Jon.... your suggesting your a better chemist then Zwitteron?
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Shake

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 04:54:55 AM »
Hmm That is no good, that has happened before to a mate on the boards just vanished.. turns out it was jail.. Maybe naf just got a bit of heat for something and cut all ties.. one can only hope..

I am addicted to this stuff, elecrochem specifically.. i need to be able to work rxns out properly on paper so i can answer my own questions.. getting there though. spend half a day in the hardware just reading ingredients and writing them down and looking them up when i get home.. so many questions.. but questions are like wishes im not wastin them on dumb stuff lol

Just got back from the library there are only like 5 OC books wtf.. im gonna have to go to a uni library.. I read that the alkene hydration with sulfuric wont work, complex molecules dont survive the acid, just below that was exactly as u suggested brominating it.. there is a large scale write up for that nickel electrode oxidation.. and apparently brominating is looking more otc than ever according to jons method :)

anyways.. ill be back soon with my second scientific break through haha ;)

« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 04:58:08 AM by Shake »

Sedit

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 05:15:34 AM »
Bromination of a terminal alkene has been pretty much standard since around 1920 at the latest, why theres so much conflict as to the hydrobromination efforts is beyond me,

But I digress lets keep this on topic since it has much more use then just the current substrate mentioned in the OP.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 05:52:23 AM »
sedit i did'nt say i'm more than a pile of shit but there is some good talent here
naf was one hell of a guy had a great sense of humor he could work circles around me sometimes.
really liked that dude i was pissed him and qd both really sharp guys.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 05:58:32 AM by jon »

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 05:55:20 AM »
yu know there is a paper on rhodium somewhere on turning bromsafrole into mdp2p with periodates i think lots of ways to skin a cat.

Shake

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 06:38:27 AM »
so what is all the talk around here about people brominating... to end up with mda?

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 08:17:48 AM »
that would be the original merck riech patent of 1912
the way mdma was originally made

Shake

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 01:41:17 PM »
hmm are you takin the piss? Funny guy!

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 02:09:30 PM »
no i'm not taking the piss out of you.

NeilPatrickHarris

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 07:18:48 PM »
Quote from: Shake on March 25, 2011, 06:38:27 AM
so what is all the talk around here about people brominating... to end up with mda?

you can get to any of the 3 mdxx's from halogenation

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 11:04:49 PM »
works well bromosafrole consistently 40-50% yields if you don't heat it and let it sit 4-5 days 60% yields and you recover all your unreacted   bromosafrole  on workup.

neil's tryed some of that before, just as good as any other mdma.

Shake

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 03:29:08 AM »
40 50 end to end?

that is pretty good. i know this now ive had the chance to see whats the latest.. seems like alot has happened since i was last around a couple years ago.. you guys have been busy!

I have to look into it a bit more but i think i will have some good ideas when it comes to gas generators reaction vessels electrolysis cells and power supply. there is always a better way!

atara

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2011, 05:34:16 AM »
I would consider potassium ferrate for the oxidation -- it's a cheap and easy to produce reagent which readily oxidizes all sorts of alcohols. It's like a safe, cheap, and accessible version of potassium dichromate.

If what jon says is true, the hydration sounds like a waste of time, frankly -- maybe oxymercuration would work but that's a pain in the ass compared to the relative simplicity of the peracid, Wacker, and dihalide methods!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:57:59 AM by atara »

jon

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Re: Alkene>Alcohol>Electrochem oxidation to ketone Nickel Electrodes single cell.
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 06:06:40 AM »
Quote
40 50 end to end?

no 93% on bromination and 50% on amination.
if you don't use heat you get 60% in the last step.
and none of your bromo decomposes so you can  recover it for reuse.
iodosafrole (if done right) gives close to 100% so about  90% overall yeilds really can't do any better than that.
since my situation went to hell i can't run this right now but when i get the chance i'll show how it is done.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:09:03 AM by jon »
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