Author Topic: Hazchem Delivery  (Read 169 times)

Slash

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Hazchem Delivery
« on: March 30, 2011, 06:04:10 PM »
Hey all,

Quick question. I usually dont buy from companies and find my stuff in shops around me but i cant seem to find THF anywhere. So i am going through a chem supplier that doesnt ask me for professional proof etc. However they say that products like THF have to be sent by Hazchem courrier. Now anyone know what that entails? Is big black van with "Hazardous Chemicals" going to pull up in front of my house or is it just like a regular courrier and call it hazchem just to justify the extra cost ( its actually quite expensive! )

Thanks for your answers

overunity33

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 06:20:30 PM »
which shipping method? Are you in the US?

fractal

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 06:29:47 PM »
Usually they ship via UPS ground and it just cost way more because the contents are hazardous, in the US at least.

psychexplorer

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 07:16:18 PM »
Standard hazmat shipping is about paperwork, labeling, packaging, and insurance. The standard courier van will pull up to your house and drop off a standard looking box, just as they would with any other shipment. The only difference on the outside of the box may be some additional labeling, varying depending on what is inside, and in what quantity.

No, there won't be a suspicious looking van, nor will your neighbors see a team of men in Tyvek chem suits walking your THF to the door.

If the quantity is small enough it won't even need the standard external paperwork under ORM-D classification or a limited quantity exemption.

Basically, you're paying for the packaging, paperwork, and red tape. This would be the case if you were ordering anything from canned air, to ammo, to large amounts of perfume, or even 151 proof alcohol.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 07:18:53 PM by psychexplorer »

Slash

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 08:27:00 PM »
@Overunity: The supplier just says "Hazchem courier" It would go from the UK to France. I'd be getting 2L of THF i think... so with the Hazchem Courier it sums up to 100$. This stuff is expensive.... :S

Anyone know anything about Customs? Do these couriers go through them?  I remember a guy from ozone labs ( some guys that were clearing their lab and selling their stuff on sciencemadness) saying that there was a weight limit. 2 Kilos IIRC...

France sucks so bad for buying chemicals its scary... 

jon

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 01:36:42 AM »
buy pvc solvent cement lookup the msds on that mostly thf.
better remove all those peroxides before you distill, it likes to go BOOM!

Slash

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 06:37:16 AM »
Yeah i read about that! BHT is what they put in the regular stuff... If i distill the THF the peroxide will stay in whats left and might go kaboom right? What should i do to prevent that?

Shake

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 06:57:45 AM »
which peroxides?

i only recall MEK and THF in the pvc cement

Maybe i was looking at a thinning agent, in which case that might be something to look for..
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:02:24 AM by Shake »

Shake

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 07:04:21 AM »
12.0 PVC CEMENT/THINNER/PRIMER
12.1 Use only recommended PVC cement from conduit fabricator.
12.2 If the cement being used shows signs of jelling, it shall be discarded. In no case shall thinner
be used in an attempt to restore jelled PVC cement.
12.3 Thinner may only be used to change the viscosity of a medium bodied cement for application
on 2" PVC pipe or smaller.
12.4 In cold weather, under 50° F., use a primer to soften the joining surfaces before applying
the cement. Allow longer cure time.


;)

Shake

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 07:14:33 AM »
http://www.e-zweld.com/webresources/files/msds/pvc_1.pdf

there you go!!

That is a mad source for thf

(cyclohexanone in thier too) wernt u looking for that also?


when a 2L thing of glue rocks up no one will care, as opposed to a HAZMAT team delivering THF in full suits
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:16:33 AM by Shake »

Slash

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 07:29:30 AM »
Hey Shake. Yeah i've been looking at some PVC cement and it seems worth getting that.. Though distilling THF still is dangerous. Peroxides are radicals that form in ether-likes when they are subject to light radiation. And they have the nasty tendency to explode :)

http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/labsafetymanual/sec7c.htm

Anyone know if MEK is easy to separate from THF by distillation? THF comes out at 66° under 760 mmHg ander MEK 80°. Thats a reasonable temperature range but with small distillation columns you never know.. Has anyone attempted this?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 07:32:38 AM by Slash »

akcom

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 02:29:36 PM »
Yes, the distillation will yield good separation.  If you do it slow you won't need a column.  Make sure your receiving flask is in a ice water as THF has a high vapor pressure at STP (albeit not as ridiculous as ether).  Distillation of THF isn't as dangerous as you'd think, just apply common sense.  Here's a quote from SM on distilling THF from various OTC's, apparently they recommend adding BHT as copper wire does not seem to be effective at prevent peroxide formation:
Quote
i find distilling from the can it came in is always the most convenient for glues and paint strippers. It doesn't mean you'll get a decent fractionation or anything but you have something which you can conveniently use in your glassware to further resolve.

As a general rule remove 1/3 of the can contents, spike a hose from the can to your condenser, immerse can in water and heat water electrically. Very sophisticated, when sufficient distillation has occurred pour in remaining 1/3 of starting material and distill to completion.
Throw away can responsibly (or burn it!!)

Slash

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 03:43:47 PM »
Well well! The future doesnt seem so grim now does it! Im def gonna try that THF distillation because prices sre ridiculous otherwise!
Im guessing the amount of BHT That needs to be added is tiny is it not? IIRC it was around 200 ppm in technical grade stuff

akcom

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Re: Hazchem Delivery
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 05:30:49 PM »
I'll take a look at my bottle and let you know what it says next time I'm in the lab.  It's reagent grade, I feel like its 500ppm but I'm not sure.