As this site now seems to be more active than others i'm bringing a thread over as I feel it's important this work continues and there seems to be little content on this website regarding the Piper Auritum species. The following are cuts from the original thread, hopefully more people are interested in the Piper Auritum and it's associated properties and our collective work is not in vain, therefore the following cuts are as follows:
Terror:
Here we have it people.. this will be the most extensive PA thread seen.
Journal entries have generally been based around the cultivation of cannabis, which, need I remind you is illegal in most countries in the world. PA is, to my knowledge legal, unless used for alternate purposes.
In background, I have extensive experience with plant matter and would like to prove or disprove any internet based information from a first hand basis.
So lets get into it:
im1badpup:
i bought some seeds this spring 100, (actually there was more theyre sold by weight) but anyways, could i fuck get any to germinate, this is what i tried,
ph 5.5 soaked for 2 hours then planted, 100% humidity 12/12 light /dark
same as above with 24 hr light.
cold period of stratification, 1 month and repeated the above.
temperatures @ 25c dark 35c light.
i tried direct and indirect light.. admittedly this was artificial 600w son-t super, rather than real sunlight.
i give up when mildew started to appear about 2-3 months in.
i never had high hopes, from the journal i read, PA seeds had low germination rates, especially to the method i tried. its also worth noting a 0% success rate like mine, begs the question whether any of the seeds i purchased was any good.
apart from my method been crap, or the seeds been crap, the only other thing i could maybe think of sensibly, was try repeat seed germination was to order another batch and,
find the ph level of a fruitbats digestive system and average body temp, and try to mimick this as closely as possible, in a laboratory style enviroment, to kick start germination( it was what i read in some study i think you may have read the same paper terror).
i will admit i was very amateurish in my attempt.
i kept the soil medium the seeds was in i sprayed with fungicide to kill the mould/mildew and allowed to dry, its "wintering" is that the word? @15c int he dark .. i will spread it in the greenhouse next spring as a final half hearted attempt just to see...
people dont like to report "failures" like mine .. personally i wish they did. failure and learning.. its the same thing
i look forward to your input on this thread terror
Spice:
Piper Auritums generally prefer to reproduce by runners, like sassafras trees. The journal papers I have read said that Piper Auritum does not set seed out of its native habitat. The paper also said that they will not flower unless the conditions closely mimic the natural ones.
I have some Pipers, and have for a few years, and while they are almost in continual flower, they've never set seed. I don't even know what one would look like, unless they are really, really tiny, and they are on the flowers themselves. The flowers are like spikes, they're white, and smell intensely of safrole when crushed.
You can clone them, but they don't really like it. What they DO like is to be planted in some rich dirt, that isn't compacted, and watered endlessly. You cannot water them too much, it isn't possible. They hate direct sun, because they don't need it. Their leaf surfaces are huge, enabling them to gather all they need in the semi-shade.
I have dabbled with fertilizers of different sorts, not really seriously at all, and I found that they dislike strong fertilizers. Weak fish emulsion is good, they like that. Epsom salts are good, they like that.......I used some calcium carbonate and it made them stemmy.....
The original three that I found on a jobsite 5 years ago are still alive. The above-ground part of the plant will die back when it freezes, but the roots are very tough. I bring mine inside when it freezes overnight, but other than that they don't get babied a lot.
I have heard of absolutely NO ONE taking advantage of the amazing speed that these plants can grow......
im1badpup:
the seeds swim purchased from south america was a chestnut brown colour.i presume they would have been a paler colour before been dried, your right spice, the seeds are really really tiny, not much bigger than sand grains.
Spice:
If you look at this flower closely, then you'll see that it is really composed of thousands of closely packed grains, on one of these spikes, apparently, the entire spike itself is nothing but these seeds. From what I can tell, then, these plants are like domestic peppers, unlike cannabis, in that they are plants in which the male and female reproductive organs are on the same plant; they're all hermaphrodites which reproduce themselves.
So, if the flower IS the seeds, then I've had millions of them all along and didn't even realize it.
Ha
iwillgetthere:
Ive had a couple of pipers in pots now for a few months, very easy to look after and, like spice says, you simply cannot over water these things. Ive been harvesting leaves adhoc and freezing in a sealed container as they come. once frozen they crunch down into a compact space within the storage box realy well.
I have a 60 site vertial grow setup (cannabis) that uses perlite and drip emitters. Very easy setup that uses a 1000w sodium lamp suspended in the centre of the system. see the link. http://www.4hydro.com/hydroponics/coliseum.asp
I plan on running the system with cfl lamps rather than sodium as the plants dont need intense light.
I was ready to start but its had to go on hold for a few months.
Im very excited about the prospect of going hydro with this plant. From what i have seen of its performance in small pots with hardly any love other than shitty uk weather, average soil and lots of water I think it will FLY when properly dialled in.
im1badpup:
ww w.2006.botanyconference.org/engine/search/index.php?func=detail&aid=849
The reproductive biology of Piper auritum ( Piperaceae) in a Mexican cloud forest
thats a link for ^^^ unfortunately its not the paper itself, but even the abstract detail is very informative. its worth chasing up.
ive had a good utfse ... theres an absolute wealth of information out there
i got four PA cuts.. and from what you guys have said.. and what all the papers say they love water ( i seen some reference with pics to them growing happily in a stream pebbled by basaltic rocks) a couple are going in some home made shallow water culture pots , 10ppm air saturation in one .. 30ppm is easy enough to get for the other ill put it to the test on these.
they seem the ideal candidate too see if supersaturation with o2(air) DOES increase dry plant mass by upto 130-140%
increase in root mass by the same %s
i dont know if a sugar level increase in the plant would be significant, but its mentioned in field trials on several species incl piper.. and EO content goes up too.
If been able to reproduce from seed ends up been a total no go, can the roots be manipulated to sucker?
Spice:
If you give them enough room, and a lot of water, they will form suckers by themselves.....but it takes a little while.
I took a young shoot from its colony and it made it, but not real happily.
Sounds like the supersaturation method might hold promise.
iwillgetthere
I managed to grow a new plant from a small side shoot popped in a little bit of clonex (rooting gel) then in some VERY wet soil.
on the window cill, inside a plastic bag to keep humidity up. this thing will not give in!
Terror:
IWG: clonex. good to hear it works...
New photos up very soon! Something exciting to show in this project!
iwillgetthere:
ooh its like a thread on a new strain of weed! I love it!
Terror:
haha, yeah... done a few of them in terror time.
This is cutting edge stuff, this in my mind is the future of the amine at this point.. unless someone figures out another productive route..
Given the sugesstions of large amounts of water I am in the considering building a small flood and drain system which can run in 5min flood gaps to ensure solid saturation of clay balls and furthermore consistant EC/PPM monitoring.
IWG, this is why I was interested in your comment of clonex as this ventures down a water constant.
Spice:
It is the future for people that want to be able to generate their own safrole without sassafras oil.
Chemists who are at a certain level can figure out a way to eventually synthesize safrole from other items, but I think piper holds more promise than any other method out there.
I read that piper hispidinervum is being used extensively in Brazil as a replacement for ocotea pretiosa, aka ocotea cymbarum, aka 'Brazillian Sassafras oil' by farmers.
I'd like to know what exactly is it that those farmers see in hispidinervum that has them excited. My guess is that those plants get bigger, probably. I don't think the oil production is going to be radically different.....regardless......
This really is cutting edge stuff.........sure ppl have known about pipers for a while now, but no one has really utilized the information.....with the technology cannabis growers have developed over the last 15 years, I think the time is right for pipers to begin their next step in their evolution, and begin a symbiotic relationship with man
NeilPatrickHarris:
what's the return of steam distilled oil per 1lb of leaf? swim has tried steam distilling tons of i. parviflorum in the past and while the oil smelled rich of safrole, the amount of oil per leaf weight was just not there. sassafras albidum root bark yielded like ~10x more oil from plant material w/w than i. parviflorum leaves. remembering swim telling me that kind of kills the piper excitement for me. however the parviflorum was also steam distilled out of season so swim would expect oil content to be on the low side, but man it was just exponentially lower than albidum for oil content.
iwillgetthere:
NPH, expect to see around 10ml per kg of plant material, maybe more if your plant is hydro'd up and environment is dialled in well. Search for a thread I started for more info.
im1badpup:
well i got four cuts..they arrived in sphagnum moss, 2 leafs on each wrapped in a bundle. give them @12 hours for them to stabilise to the room temps without moving them,... little wet shower.. dipped roots in water planted into 15litre buckets, mixture of wetlands advanced+ and a little rhodendran compost(ph of that is 5.5) . added 1ml superthrive and 5ml voodoo juice too 3 litres of water, phed too 6 and soaked them good. plants didnt seem to thrilled with 24 hr light so moved too 12/12 quite a distance from 600w hps. leaves turned towards the light within 24 hours, theyve stopped been curled and are flat open.. and in 7 days two have pushed two more leaves out (one each)
so now theyre sat about waiting for... next spring
ganja pushes a leaf out every day to two days from the main stem... once settled in how fast any swim reckon these go?
Spice:
water them on a continual drip emitter or similar.....I saw them grow real fast, faster than what you're describing, when they were watered continually, temp in the mid-80's, and indirect semi-shade.
A lot of water. A lot......
I suspect the way to go with these things would be a DWC bubbling bucket, maybe a ten gallon......
Terror:
Bumping this one up... hows everyone going here? Any yield news?
Also, anything further on nutrient levels? And finally, im struggling to find info on bugs.. my leaves seem to have crusty edges, almost like over-nutrient feeding, but only running a low npk once monthly..
im1badpup:
mine have just come back out of "hibernation" from the winter, i have to bring them in in winter months. they die back to the main stem, a few sections of stem break off, and little nuggets appear on the side where new growth waits to emerge. some tubers spring up too.
the outside climate here during summer is humid/warm enough from end april till beginning sept without a greenhouse, with around 1200g of leaf material coming off the plant in them months (thats 2nd year growth)
when dialled into a cannabis style grow setup they about double that in the same timeframe.
ive had them flower, however they dont appear to reach maturity and drop off prematurely, this could be a stress reaction from the days-nights difference to their native habitat, i think the natural summer-winter is 14-10 10-14hrs, here its 17-7 7-17hrs and the cycle changes to fast to allow maturity.
from what i recall, after emerging (in nature) the flowers stick upwards, then as they elongate and mature will turn downwards like a pendant and the outer of the flower looks like its rupturing as the surface fills with seed and it darkens somewhat from the lily white, what mine did was start to fill with small patches of seed, then suddenly drop off without swinging like a pendant or darkening.
(i bought some seed of PA to compare and id be damn sure they develop on the outside of the flower) i tried germinating what id bought with 0% success
they got caught in a freak hailstorm shower, blackened all over and two died from shock- they really dont like sudden cold.
i have no distillation % results, i went away and the leaf id accumulated was rotting in the freezer upon my return due to power outage in the month. (does safrole survive that plant decomposition?) i could still smell it sweetness amongst the stench what was making me vomit as i cleaned it out. ill admit im a bit gutted about that, i had similar weights grown indoor and outdoor to compare..
id really recommend someone to try a HI-flow dwc setup either indoor or in a greenhouse if they want a large amount of leaf mass quickly, or indeed rootmass,(i duno offhand the rootmass% of saf in PA but some of its cousins certainly contain it) ive seen what the setup can do with cannabis plants and youd be talking @5kg rootmass 1.5-2kg leafmass in 6-8 weeks.
id do it myself but no prizes guessing whats taking up the space
i would elude this as a guess but if cropping them i would try to do it when theyre flowering, the smell is strongest then
im1badpup:
terror mine had burnt edges from a few things, one was getting caught in the cold. the main one was the ph was out. they preferred about 5.5 -5.8 but been a lazy fucker id sling in some dilute nute from the other plants which was a bit high, @6.2 - 6.5ph.
they seemed to like a weakened veg solution of cannabis nute, the higher N to PK ratio in ppms it wont have been more than 1000ppm (at the most) once every 4-5th watering in as many days.
adding nute n bloom with boost in (laziness again) burnt the leaf edges so i guess theyre not keen on high levels of PK.
the older leafs pale a little then drop when theyre short of N. you can remedy this with a foliar spray of the underside with something like seaweed extract at 1/4 strength to whatever the bottle says till your ready to pull em off. its cheap as from garden centre, fuck the expensive growshop stuff.
aphids seem to like em, greenfly too.. easy to get rid of tho.
i meant to add, nutes are notorious for been far out with their strength to what the bottle says, theyre usually far more concentrated, i hope youve a ppm reader to see what i mean before adding cos u mite burn hell out of them if not.
NeilPatrickHarris:
im1badpup you stored the leaves in the freezer from when they were fresh? just an idea but why not let the leaves sit out after they drop off - or - are harvested. let them sit out until the water is evaporated out of them and they are crunchy, so they lose the water weight. then store them like that. just an idea, perhaps someone with experience storing them both ways can comment on this.
Terror:
Here we have it people.. this will be the most extensive PA thread seen.
Journal entries have generally been based around the cultivation of cannabis, which, need I remind you is illegal in most countries in the world. PA is, to my knowledge legal, unless used for alternate purposes.
In background, I have extensive experience with plant matter and would like to prove or disprove any internet based information from a first hand basis.
So lets get into it:
im1badpup:
i bought some seeds this spring 100, (actually there was more theyre sold by weight) but anyways, could i fuck get any to germinate, this is what i tried,
ph 5.5 soaked for 2 hours then planted, 100% humidity 12/12 light /dark
same as above with 24 hr light.
cold period of stratification, 1 month and repeated the above.
temperatures @ 25c dark 35c light.
i tried direct and indirect light.. admittedly this was artificial 600w son-t super, rather than real sunlight.
i give up when mildew started to appear about 2-3 months in.
i never had high hopes, from the journal i read, PA seeds had low germination rates, especially to the method i tried. its also worth noting a 0% success rate like mine, begs the question whether any of the seeds i purchased was any good.
apart from my method been crap, or the seeds been crap, the only other thing i could maybe think of sensibly, was try repeat seed germination was to order another batch and,
find the ph level of a fruitbats digestive system and average body temp, and try to mimick this as closely as possible, in a laboratory style enviroment, to kick start germination( it was what i read in some study i think you may have read the same paper terror).
i will admit i was very amateurish in my attempt.
i kept the soil medium the seeds was in i sprayed with fungicide to kill the mould/mildew and allowed to dry, its "wintering" is that the word? @15c int he dark .. i will spread it in the greenhouse next spring as a final half hearted attempt just to see...
people dont like to report "failures" like mine .. personally i wish they did. failure and learning.. its the same thing
i look forward to your input on this thread terror
Spice:
Piper Auritums generally prefer to reproduce by runners, like sassafras trees. The journal papers I have read said that Piper Auritum does not set seed out of its native habitat. The paper also said that they will not flower unless the conditions closely mimic the natural ones.
I have some Pipers, and have for a few years, and while they are almost in continual flower, they've never set seed. I don't even know what one would look like, unless they are really, really tiny, and they are on the flowers themselves. The flowers are like spikes, they're white, and smell intensely of safrole when crushed.
You can clone them, but they don't really like it. What they DO like is to be planted in some rich dirt, that isn't compacted, and watered endlessly. You cannot water them too much, it isn't possible. They hate direct sun, because they don't need it. Their leaf surfaces are huge, enabling them to gather all they need in the semi-shade.
I have dabbled with fertilizers of different sorts, not really seriously at all, and I found that they dislike strong fertilizers. Weak fish emulsion is good, they like that. Epsom salts are good, they like that.......I used some calcium carbonate and it made them stemmy.....
The original three that I found on a jobsite 5 years ago are still alive. The above-ground part of the plant will die back when it freezes, but the roots are very tough. I bring mine inside when it freezes overnight, but other than that they don't get babied a lot.
I have heard of absolutely NO ONE taking advantage of the amazing speed that these plants can grow......
im1badpup:
the seeds swim purchased from south america was a chestnut brown colour.i presume they would have been a paler colour before been dried, your right spice, the seeds are really really tiny, not much bigger than sand grains.
Spice:
If you look at this flower closely, then you'll see that it is really composed of thousands of closely packed grains, on one of these spikes, apparently, the entire spike itself is nothing but these seeds. From what I can tell, then, these plants are like domestic peppers, unlike cannabis, in that they are plants in which the male and female reproductive organs are on the same plant; they're all hermaphrodites which reproduce themselves.
So, if the flower IS the seeds, then I've had millions of them all along and didn't even realize it.
Ha
iwillgetthere:
Ive had a couple of pipers in pots now for a few months, very easy to look after and, like spice says, you simply cannot over water these things. Ive been harvesting leaves adhoc and freezing in a sealed container as they come. once frozen they crunch down into a compact space within the storage box realy well.
I have a 60 site vertial grow setup (cannabis) that uses perlite and drip emitters. Very easy setup that uses a 1000w sodium lamp suspended in the centre of the system. see the link. http://www.4hydro.com/hydroponics/coliseum.asp
I plan on running the system with cfl lamps rather than sodium as the plants dont need intense light.
I was ready to start but its had to go on hold for a few months.
Im very excited about the prospect of going hydro with this plant. From what i have seen of its performance in small pots with hardly any love other than shitty uk weather, average soil and lots of water I think it will FLY when properly dialled in.
im1badpup:
ww w.2006.botanyconference.org/engine/search/index.php?func=detail&aid=849
The reproductive biology of Piper auritum ( Piperaceae) in a Mexican cloud forest
thats a link for ^^^ unfortunately its not the paper itself, but even the abstract detail is very informative. its worth chasing up.
ive had a good utfse ... theres an absolute wealth of information out there
i got four PA cuts.. and from what you guys have said.. and what all the papers say they love water ( i seen some reference with pics to them growing happily in a stream pebbled by basaltic rocks) a couple are going in some home made shallow water culture pots , 10ppm air saturation in one .. 30ppm is easy enough to get for the other ill put it to the test on these.
they seem the ideal candidate too see if supersaturation with o2(air) DOES increase dry plant mass by upto 130-140%
increase in root mass by the same %s
i dont know if a sugar level increase in the plant would be significant, but its mentioned in field trials on several species incl piper.. and EO content goes up too.
If been able to reproduce from seed ends up been a total no go, can the roots be manipulated to sucker?
Spice:
If you give them enough room, and a lot of water, they will form suckers by themselves.....but it takes a little while.
I took a young shoot from its colony and it made it, but not real happily.
Sounds like the supersaturation method might hold promise.
iwillgetthere
I managed to grow a new plant from a small side shoot popped in a little bit of clonex (rooting gel) then in some VERY wet soil.
on the window cill, inside a plastic bag to keep humidity up. this thing will not give in!
Terror:
IWG: clonex. good to hear it works...
New photos up very soon! Something exciting to show in this project!
iwillgetthere:
ooh its like a thread on a new strain of weed! I love it!
Terror:
haha, yeah... done a few of them in terror time.
This is cutting edge stuff, this in my mind is the future of the amine at this point.. unless someone figures out another productive route..
Given the sugesstions of large amounts of water I am in the considering building a small flood and drain system which can run in 5min flood gaps to ensure solid saturation of clay balls and furthermore consistant EC/PPM monitoring.
IWG, this is why I was interested in your comment of clonex as this ventures down a water constant.
Spice:
It is the future for people that want to be able to generate their own safrole without sassafras oil.
Chemists who are at a certain level can figure out a way to eventually synthesize safrole from other items, but I think piper holds more promise than any other method out there.
I read that piper hispidinervum is being used extensively in Brazil as a replacement for ocotea pretiosa, aka ocotea cymbarum, aka 'Brazillian Sassafras oil' by farmers.
I'd like to know what exactly is it that those farmers see in hispidinervum that has them excited. My guess is that those plants get bigger, probably. I don't think the oil production is going to be radically different.....regardless......
This really is cutting edge stuff.........sure ppl have known about pipers for a while now, but no one has really utilized the information.....with the technology cannabis growers have developed over the last 15 years, I think the time is right for pipers to begin their next step in their evolution, and begin a symbiotic relationship with man
NeilPatrickHarris:
what's the return of steam distilled oil per 1lb of leaf? swim has tried steam distilling tons of i. parviflorum in the past and while the oil smelled rich of safrole, the amount of oil per leaf weight was just not there. sassafras albidum root bark yielded like ~10x more oil from plant material w/w than i. parviflorum leaves. remembering swim telling me that kind of kills the piper excitement for me. however the parviflorum was also steam distilled out of season so swim would expect oil content to be on the low side, but man it was just exponentially lower than albidum for oil content.
iwillgetthere:
NPH, expect to see around 10ml per kg of plant material, maybe more if your plant is hydro'd up and environment is dialled in well. Search for a thread I started for more info.
im1badpup:
well i got four cuts..they arrived in sphagnum moss, 2 leafs on each wrapped in a bundle. give them @12 hours for them to stabilise to the room temps without moving them,... little wet shower.. dipped roots in water planted into 15litre buckets, mixture of wetlands advanced+ and a little rhodendran compost(ph of that is 5.5) . added 1ml superthrive and 5ml voodoo juice too 3 litres of water, phed too 6 and soaked them good. plants didnt seem to thrilled with 24 hr light so moved too 12/12 quite a distance from 600w hps. leaves turned towards the light within 24 hours, theyve stopped been curled and are flat open.. and in 7 days two have pushed two more leaves out (one each)
so now theyre sat about waiting for... next spring
ganja pushes a leaf out every day to two days from the main stem... once settled in how fast any swim reckon these go?
Spice:
water them on a continual drip emitter or similar.....I saw them grow real fast, faster than what you're describing, when they were watered continually, temp in the mid-80's, and indirect semi-shade.
A lot of water. A lot......
I suspect the way to go with these things would be a DWC bubbling bucket, maybe a ten gallon......
Terror:
Bumping this one up... hows everyone going here? Any yield news?
Also, anything further on nutrient levels? And finally, im struggling to find info on bugs.. my leaves seem to have crusty edges, almost like over-nutrient feeding, but only running a low npk once monthly..
im1badpup:
mine have just come back out of "hibernation" from the winter, i have to bring them in in winter months. they die back to the main stem, a few sections of stem break off, and little nuggets appear on the side where new growth waits to emerge. some tubers spring up too.
the outside climate here during summer is humid/warm enough from end april till beginning sept without a greenhouse, with around 1200g of leaf material coming off the plant in them months (thats 2nd year growth)
when dialled into a cannabis style grow setup they about double that in the same timeframe.
ive had them flower, however they dont appear to reach maturity and drop off prematurely, this could be a stress reaction from the days-nights difference to their native habitat, i think the natural summer-winter is 14-10 10-14hrs, here its 17-7 7-17hrs and the cycle changes to fast to allow maturity.
from what i recall, after emerging (in nature) the flowers stick upwards, then as they elongate and mature will turn downwards like a pendant and the outer of the flower looks like its rupturing as the surface fills with seed and it darkens somewhat from the lily white, what mine did was start to fill with small patches of seed, then suddenly drop off without swinging like a pendant or darkening.
(i bought some seed of PA to compare and id be damn sure they develop on the outside of the flower) i tried germinating what id bought with 0% success
they got caught in a freak hailstorm shower, blackened all over and two died from shock- they really dont like sudden cold.
i have no distillation % results, i went away and the leaf id accumulated was rotting in the freezer upon my return due to power outage in the month. (does safrole survive that plant decomposition?) i could still smell it sweetness amongst the stench what was making me vomit as i cleaned it out. ill admit im a bit gutted about that, i had similar weights grown indoor and outdoor to compare..
id really recommend someone to try a HI-flow dwc setup either indoor or in a greenhouse if they want a large amount of leaf mass quickly, or indeed rootmass,(i duno offhand the rootmass% of saf in PA but some of its cousins certainly contain it) ive seen what the setup can do with cannabis plants and youd be talking @5kg rootmass 1.5-2kg leafmass in 6-8 weeks.
id do it myself but no prizes guessing whats taking up the space
i would elude this as a guess but if cropping them i would try to do it when theyre flowering, the smell is strongest then
im1badpup:
terror mine had burnt edges from a few things, one was getting caught in the cold. the main one was the ph was out. they preferred about 5.5 -5.8 but been a lazy fucker id sling in some dilute nute from the other plants which was a bit high, @6.2 - 6.5ph.
they seemed to like a weakened veg solution of cannabis nute, the higher N to PK ratio in ppms it wont have been more than 1000ppm (at the most) once every 4-5th watering in as many days.
adding nute n bloom with boost in (laziness again) burnt the leaf edges so i guess theyre not keen on high levels of PK.
the older leafs pale a little then drop when theyre short of N. you can remedy this with a foliar spray of the underside with something like seaweed extract at 1/4 strength to whatever the bottle says till your ready to pull em off. its cheap as from garden centre, fuck the expensive growshop stuff.
aphids seem to like em, greenfly too.. easy to get rid of tho.
i meant to add, nutes are notorious for been far out with their strength to what the bottle says, theyre usually far more concentrated, i hope youve a ppm reader to see what i mean before adding cos u mite burn hell out of them if not.
NeilPatrickHarris:
im1badpup you stored the leaves in the freezer from when they were fresh? just an idea but why not let the leaves sit out after they drop off - or - are harvested. let them sit out until the water is evaporated out of them and they are crunchy, so they lose the water weight. then store them like that. just an idea, perhaps someone with experience storing them both ways can comment on this.