Are we sitting comfortably ? OK then i`ll begin.................Chapter 2 ........

"(and really how can you generalize so much? The variety you can get in the whole country Netherlands is astonishing)"

I understand what you mean but 40 years of 24/7 experience is not generaliseing ....... one has never worked as one doesnt like it and has out of sympathy for all the unemployed avoided it like ebola . Dont want to be negative but your friend aint a berber ? He aint a morocan that lives in ketama ? His family doesnt own a hash farm ? As i said unless one owns a farm one doesnt get anything realy good = a few hundred grams from a ton of buds .  Think about a farm where they make things only for themselves = a few hundred grams from a ton of buds ....... then think about what the do with the 200 kilos and more by product "hash" ? For a tourist or a marocan that doesnt fullfill the conditions above and to get such stuff one would at least have to buy the whole deal plus pay the people to make it ....... one would also have to go and stay there from june to end of september and buy the rights to the crop of selected fields cos there are good ones and bad ones ......... and ones they plant on brack / shit land especialy for tourists ........ and they wouldnt do it because if the tourists got hold of any they would never buy the shit that they export .  What gets made and sold is kiff hash some of wich is OK compared to the crap that gets to the coffee shops and end users . Smuglers dont smuggle realy good quality either cos of the price and profit margine ....... people wouldnt buy it ........  

The people in ketama have a favorite hobby = ripping each other off and anyone who lets himself get ripped is not a man in their eyes and is laughed at and not taken seriously again untill he proves himself ...... its a different world there with different vakues ........ and torists have less than no chance . When one gets there one is testsed and evaluated and then one only gets the level of hash that one says is good . Unless one has a lot of balls and real experience one gets cack . Another game is put the shits up.the tourists = it goes as far as sticking loaded cocked rifles in ones face = most people shit out at some point and then they pay for anything . As far as the berbers go they think we are rich and stupid and why sell anything good to a dickhead when one can put the shits up. him and sell him crap expensively .

As for holland the same goes ....... if youve ever grown grass ? you will see how greedy the bastards are by the prices they charge ...... an example ...... the guy that grows the grass for the dutch government ....... is a gringo ! ...... he grows it in greenhouses with underfloor heating and added lights ...... he said a few years ago that it costs less than 1 euro a gramm to grow ......... Then look at the high times cack ......oooops ! sorry CUP ........ the growers bring things out on the first day tha are better than that thats sold in coffee shops ........ after the first day the bring the same old crap out as everyone is so blasted that they wouldnt know the difference ....... That shows that they have better .......... AND ........ the biggest point is ......... the one you made about what your friend brings wich is better than what you get normaly ............ = any sense or idea of quality comes from makeing a comparison between what one has and what one has had .......... again see above .

This one was lucky enough to have been around when there was good hash and grass on the market before the comercial and tourist boom that started in the 80s when farmers realised that tourists havent got a clue and would buy anything .......... so they started makeing that anything and selling shit for export ........ thank you tourists .......... just cos one comes from holland doesnt mean that one has a clue ....... tourists are tourists and comercial is comercial .........

Another thing look at what the dutch did with letuice , tomatos and tulips = grew shit letuice that was like wet cardboard and had no taste , the same with tomatoes and they aplyed the same criteria to the grass they grew = big and fat and stinky but as they were mostly veg and tulip growers and not smokers they didnt grow for strength .

Anyway your a lucky sod and should be proud you can get something nice .



And now we leave ketama and go BACK TO THE MM PROJECT ........... Humor not insult one wouldnt insult a liveing legend and one of ones heros  ........and WOW ! for the land of the free you certainly have little freedom ............  welding stores ? CO2 tanks ? Cheep and inocuous and if the cooking cylynder butain has scent added a possible alternative ? ALSO ...... what about trying other available gasses ? Why wouldnt propain or other welding = non scented gas work ?


EDIT - The dry ice bit could also be used and dont have scent in it . Warm it in a sealed container and the preasure and warmth would help as well as the solvent qualitys .

Medical gasses ? Diveing gas ......... obviously not oxygen ............ ? Wont have shit in them . <------- experimentation . The gas direction is to good ....... if it can be made to work ...... to drop . Still dont see any problem with makeing wine / tincture = easy and it does the work by itself one doesnt have to have a lab and do any lab work .

Okay humor... we like humor.  It can be hard to discern sometimes on the net. Anyway I did say "slightly"

Regarding it being "the land of the free"---this has now been fully exposed as a cruel hoax and a myth!! It's getting to be about as free as a Soviet gulag. We all live in fear here these days, though many are in denial and can't admit it. If you're not worried (here), you're not awake. To be perfectly honest, the reason "MM" is hypothetically revitalizing his old hobby is so that "MM" can make enough play money to get the FUCK out of this police state. Quite a few countries are looking more attractive than staying here.

About propane, if memory serves (and it often doesn't, heh heh ), I've looked up propane for this and found that people have tried it and learned that it doesn't have the same properties as an extraction solvent that butane does. Also, it always without fail has the odorant added.

Regarding tinctures, yes that's a fine direction when there's a market for it, but in our world of highly competitive medical dispensaries with their focus on flowers, hashes and oil, it doesn't appear that tinctures get much interest at all. I'd love to make tinctures and sell them to the world via the web, but that's not going to be safe anytime soon. We're looking for a way to utilize our trim to maximize its earning potential.

One word about pot being no good unless it's grown at high altitude: the quality of Hawai'ian would seem to disprove this... that's grown at sea level. Back in the good old days (late 70s-early 80s) I sampled some Kona Gold and Puna Butter that was of incredible quality, and that stuff was grown at sea level! I agree that high altitude is generally better, but just sayin'... I think good genetics and intense sunlight at sea level can produce some pretty nice stuff also. Or how about some of the African types at almost sea level? I think your highly discriminating taste, while admirably connoisseur, might be bordering on the prejudicial, no?  To write off everything that's grown indoors as crap is sort of unreasonable. Though I certainly can admit I envy you for some of the things I can tell by your writing that you must have tried over the years.

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you that high-alt outdoor is the best, I agree that it has to be (I wish I'd had the chance to try more). I just wanted to rebut the idea that everything else is worthless crap.

In fact, when it comes to high-altitude sativas, when I think about it I've only ever had quality Mexican types in the late 70s, and Red and Gold Colombians (not sure if this was high-alt---was it?). And thinking back to those, I recall them having wonderful near-psychedelic effects that you just don't get today, so I have to concede, sadly.

However I suspect we may be talking about distinctions not between, say, Ferraris and Yugos, but Ferraris and Mercedes if you can appreciate that way of illustrating it.

Back then, Thai blew everything else away, and still would today, I suspect, if it were possible to get the same kind of stuff that we were getting in 1976/1977/1978. God, I miss that stuff.

I hear this a lot, I would like to see a single reference showing a higher THC content in weed of old compared to todays pott. Countless studies have shown that those "shitty" indoor growers and countless hybridization have greatly increased the potency of weed since that of yesteryear.



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Also Salat, I don't think my reaction to weed is all that uncommon and recent research is starting to show that it may in fact be a seizure disorder causing the panic associated with weed due to quite possibly downregulation of the CBn receptors themselfs due to my chronic use(haha pun) and natural disposition. Its odd that I have just found papers that seems to suggest a CB1/GABA-receptors. Never heard of such a thing but then again I haven't heard of alot of what this paper details.

I can't say I disagree however I think way to much perspective is placed on THC when its use in pharmacology of weed is out dated. It is not THE psychoactive substance it is but one of many that work to unify the experience.

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Take into consideration the other processes of extraction.

For example, Decaffeination, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decaffeination#CO2_process is NOT just with CO2 supercritical extraction.

CO2 from a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher, usually has a pressure gauge in KPa, can be used in a semi-CO2 supercritical extraction.

Others may not feel this way, but for me, if it deals with any kind of dangerous pressure where a tank could become a possible fragmentation device or wild rocket, it's not any better than the butane way. Personally, I'm only interested in something that is safer than butane/alcohols/solvents due to the lack of flammability PLUS no pressure risks. Otherwise, I may as well just keep on using butane.

There's an interesting video on Youtube where a guy extracts some limonene from an orange peel simply by sticking it in a plastic tube with some dry ice and letting the dry ice start evaping/boiling in the tube, with pressure escaping gradually through the cap.  At the end, there is limonene in the bottom of the tube. I don't know if this could be safely adapted to way larger scale safely or not. Obviously, orange rind is solid pieces while cannabis trim is small pieces of leaf etc, so there is the issue of separation again.

When I started this thread I was hoping that it was a simple matter of taking a vessel, stuffing it with trim, hooking up a CO2 tank to it, passing CO2 through it and then somehow retrieving extracted oil. That was probably a bit optimistic.

I know Im coming in a bit late in the game guys, but if the question is one of how to process a ton of herb into oil, one can do so without using a ton of butane. You can just run the huge amount of trim or popcorn or whatever through a bubble bag setup or dry sifter, and then process the collected keif through a butane extractor. One uses less butane because youve mechanically done have the extraction anyway.

To plagiarize myself:
"Process one: Making your hash into hash oil

The big problem with making large amounts of honey oil is that you have to use huge amounts of pot, and stuffing huge amounts of pot into 1" diameter tubes is like, waaaaaay too much work, man. So take those huge amounts of pot, and either run it through some bubble bags, gumby it, or dry sift it, so that what you are left with is mostly trichromes. Doesnt have to be the cleanest hash, thats why dry sift will suffice, it just needs to be less bulky. Once youve collected your trichromes, allow them to dry, and DO NOT PRESS THEM TOGETHER. Once dry, load your BHO extractor tube, and continue just as though it were herb a la [LINK REMOVED]. The only difference between extracting this and the pot will be in the (proportionally) increased gains per tube. In actuality, what youve done is allow the butane to carry the least of the extraction, the last purification from already somewhat mechanically purified pot, letting you use less gas.


Process two: Liquid solvent extraction.

Some of you have tried ISO or alcohol pot extract, sometimes called oil, but universally it is a green/black glassy substance that is moderately potent and is harsh as hell. Why makes this so different from honey oil, which is fragrant, yellow to amber, and extremely potent? Chlorophyll. The plant pigment burns, making carbon, hurting your throat. It changes it from a chunky oil to a glassy tar. It masks the scent. Worst of all, it dilutes it. Then why make it? Its easy. Its cheap. So we are going to start with cheap ISO, and remove all the impurities from it chemically.

First we will make some ISO extract. Take your pot and grind it then put it in a large jar(s). Cover it with at least 70% isopropyl alcohol. Close the jar, and wait a week. You will have a dark green/black liquid. Using a cotton cloth or muslin cloth, strain out all the herb (squeezing the last drops out) and save the liquid in a large baking dish(s). Allow this to evaporate outside. It will do so quickly. You will be left with the aforementioned glassy black tar.

Now comes the fun part, where we make this barely smokable crap into awesome. Get some pure naptha, and put it in the freezer for at least a day. Place the tar in the freezer, too. This will make is more dense and easier to shatter. Once it is frozen, powder it. Chopping with a cold knife on a cold glass cutting board worked best for me. Once you have a fairly fine powder (2mm balls or less) Fill a clean jar halfway with the now very cold naptha. Working fast, while the tar powder is still cold, throw it into the jar, and wait for it to sink to the bottom. Then, add an amount equal to the naptha of room temperature pure H2O. Close the jar, and shake furiously for as long as the naptha remains cooler than room temp.

This should last for ebout 20 minutes in a 65 degree fahrenheit. During this time, the tar will dissolve in the naptha, and the chlorophyll will be pulled into the water. The reason for this is that chlorophyl disolves weakly in cold naptha, but very well in warm water, and the oils that we want disolve well in cold naptha, but not at all in water. The trick is knowing when to stop. If the naptha gets too warm, the chlorophyll will start to dissolve back into the naptha. Once the jar starts to get closer to room temp, put it in the freezer and allow it to rest for an hour or so. The water and the naptha will settle into two distinct layers. Carefully remove and discard the water with the chlorophyl, and keep the naptha. If there is still chlorophyll in the naptha, you should freeze it again for a day, add another equal measure of lukewarm water, shake furiously, freeze, and remove the water layer. do this as many times as necessary until no chlorophyll is visible. Once your naptha layer is the palest yellow. decant it into a baking dish and allow this to evaporate outside for several hours.

You will be left with a chunky oil. This should be cured to remove any trace solvents. Do this by floating the tray on a boiling hot water bath just until the chunky oil becomes free flowing and thin, just before the boiling point. Once this is achieved, freeze the tray until the oil is solid again. Repeat this process several times."