Ill look into it more since I always wanted to perform a similar experiment but right now I don't know enough to help. Is the CO2 in canisters already liquid? If so that would simplify everything a thousand fold as it would be as simple as transferring the liquid from one canister to the other and heating the hell out of it after. As it stands the graph I am looking at says you need 100bar at 300 degrees kelvin just to get to the Super critical stage.

GL

I'm starting to see this isn't going to be possible in the simple DIY manner I was hoping.

Okay I just found this thread --> http://fullmeltbubble.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6767

and it sort of clears up some things. Primarily, that most of the purported CO2 extracted oil in L.A.-area dispensaries is probably only being called CO2-extracted because there is a (stupid misguided) municipal ordinance in L.A. prohibiting butane-extracted oil. This is how they get around that.

So I suspect that most if not all of what's being claimed to be "supercritically-extracted" is just butane oil.

From that thread:

Recently came across a closed loop CO2 setup online, for only $10K USD used, from a lab equipment supplier, (probably monitored). And the whole setup only took up most of a medium sized room

Okay so it's not $200,000, but it's $10,000 and that's about $9,500 more than we were prepared to put out to do this.

That thread, like all the others I found on pot sites, devolved into stupid arguments about the relative definitions  of hash and hash oil, never staying on the CO2 topic.

Its not a new idea it was the talk of the scene in the middle of the 80s . We tried it by putting grass in a barrel and dropping liquid co2 on top thinking its heavyer than air and will sink through it and the oil drop out underneath . We had no sucess and gave up thinking that the liquid had frozen the oils so they didnt come out . Maybe you can think of a way to do it useing the gas because its heavyer than air ? A container with a small hole at the bottom , a big one at the top to put the grass and dry ice in  seal the top and heat it and the shit should expand and the gas preasure blow the oil out of the hole at the bottom . Could fit stop cock and preasure meter and thermometer so one could warm it up sealed and then when the temperture / preasure gets right open the stop cock at the bottom and collect the goo <------ being contravesial cos it aint just oil its a mixture of all the liquid , oil and fat parts ........

Personaly i think the best way to make oil is soak the material with ethy alcohol and drink it because 1 its not poisonous and 2 one doesnt have to get the solvent = it off the cannabis . Getting the solvent of oil is a pain in the arse and ruins the high = heat and / or time . 3 oil is a pain in the arse cos it sticks every where and is difficult to use . 4 the alcohol preserves it = one can have it hanging around for years in a cool dark place and it doesnt go off ....... it gets better . 5 it gets into ones system mega fast and with a woooooosh ! = BIG dose very fast = mucho FUN .

Makeing wine and then soaking the decarboxylated grass in it is a N-I-C-E hit  same with powdered hash ..

Story time ------ > pigs came round and found nothing ....... or so they thought ........... they found an empty brown glass half liter bottle in the dirty laundry pile... ...... good they didnt open it cos it was white glass and had a coating of oil on it . Eating a gramm or two on an empty stomach was good for a nice day .......

Also used to get loads of strong rum from jamaka cos the customs men were not so hot in those days . A shot glass = nice afternoon with smile on face .

The picture is of some about 8 - 9 - 10 year old grass wine . Unfortunately all gone since a few months .

Salat posted showing that it is a glassy solid when cool so if one wanted to be technical then it could precipitate from a solution, other then that what would you call it if it where able to come into solution then was released?

But no matter because the available THC is so low in weed that its a mute point. In order to acquire enough to even purify that way it would just be unreasonable. Marinol sucks because THC sucks, there have been many studies to show that THC is an awful drug without the other cannabinoids present to alter the effects of the THC. I almost get amused watching people test pure THC because the panic attacks it sends them into is the feeling I get from normal weed anyway so its odd to watch a hardcore smoker suddenly see what I always see.


Methyl,
I have been thinking and baring a means of capturing the oil after the extraction I think the best way so far would be to acquire dry ice and place it in a pressure vessel with the plant material. As the solid warms it will expand and exert the pressures needed to achieve the required super critical phase. This sounds highly likely to work in theory but what to do even if you where able to reach the pressures is the big question. Perhaps turning the tank over and slowly releasing the pressure will bring the oils out on tap so to speak but I could only really assume as to what would happen.

Thaks for the suggestions everyone, but the fact is that if there is no relatively easy way to do it without heat and pressure and elaborate setup, etc---and it looks like there isn't---the idea is no good to us. I was just looking into it.

Just to keep the conversation going, I'll note that soxhleting would be total overkill because the oil is very easily extracted (not to mention impractical for large scale). Soxhlet extraction is more for alkaloids that are reluctant and you're trying to get them all out. Cannabis oil only needs a quick contact with any one of many solvents. Isopropyl works well in two minutes or less but leaves behind the flavor/aroma terpenes.

Butane gets all the right stuff, but is a pain due to its ultra volatility. I'm talking about a scale of around a pound or two at a time, which isn't practical at all for butane, but is for IPA.

The best compromise could be hexane, which I've never tried, because I hear it extracts the same range as butane does (cannabinoids + terpenoids both) but can be treated the way IPA is (quick contact then separation).

I did a pound of trim once with about 2.5 gallons IPA (less than 2 minutes extraction time) and got around 36g of oil, but the oil was not real tasty because as I say, IPA doesn't pick up the terpenoids. So if hexane does, that could be the way to go, but not if that kind of solvent volume is prohibitively expensive or is suspicious when ordered in that quantity. I'd have to either distill so the hexane can be reclaimed, or let it evaporate, but I'm sure that it's way too costly to do that with... yet I don't look forward to distilling two frickin' gallons of solvent!

This is not aimed at anyone and is not an attack its just some facts to educate .......Just to keep the conversation going .

"Salat posted showing that it is a glassy solid when cool so if one wanted to be technical then it could precipitate from a solution, other then that what would you call it if it where able to come into solution then was released?"

Thats interesting . Where can i read that please ? Its also a chance to make a lot of money as the chemical industry cant do it , hence marinol and not powder or crystals , and when one reads ....... UsTFSE ...... and looks in wiki it says different . Pure THC is a red oil . When at room temperture it is not solid but like tar / rubber . Also precipitate has a definition that only fits to solids . Precipitae means to drop out in a solution . I wanna see anyone do that ..... please . One could make an alcohol extraction and then mix loads of water in it so that it was no longer soluble in the alc and then it would stick to the sides of the container and any stiring rod . Have done that with oil but it still isnt a solid and that is separation and not precipitation ..

"But no matter because the available THC is so low in weed that its a mute point."

First a distinction between real grass , wich is very hard to find since the dutch got their hands on it and started crossing things instead of breeding them . That was also done by the canadians , the swiss and the yanks . That NOTHING has changed in the cannabis world can be seen when one grows real haze wich is still the strongest grass and was first grown in the 70s in californ-eye -A . That also again shows that breeding doesnt ( VERY rarely and not sucsessfully ) happen and that people cross instead . That can also be seen when one grows any of the shit crosses that have flooded the market since the start of the 80s . Most of them dont produce stabilised offspring in the first or after a few generations . The ones that do are old pure strains that one has next to no chance of getting . The price of seeds of pure strains goes from tens of thousands of euros upwards as i found out when sensi seeds was interested in buying seeds from my grass .

Then ...... before the dutch tomato growers disaster there used to be two types of grass . Smokeing grass ...... in moroco called kiff wich produced next to no hash and hash grass wich after the hash was sieved off wasnt worth smokeing . Those sorts of grass have been largly lost and the only chance of getting real kiff in moroco is to be a member of the kings family  or to buy a farm = imposible . If one goes to moroco one can smell the disaster ( if the wind is in the right direction one can smell itbin malaga ) as ketama now smells like a dutch coffee shop = like a cheep transvestite brothel or nasty kiddy perfume from woolworths . IF one goes to the right places and has good eyes one sees real kiff plants . There are two sorts and both grow with the typical kiff plant christmas tree shape . One is about 1.25 - 1.50 meters high and the other is about 2 - 2.50 meters high . BUT one would not get near enough to see them without being in danger of being killed . They have watch men 24/7 and IF one gets within seein distance = a few kilometers the whole fuckin valleys sound with loud speaker alarms like in the 2nd world war , loads of dogs start barking and one gets shot at ........ luckily the bastards missed me  and i soon got out of range . If one spends any time on a real farm there = NOT one owned by morocans one owned by berbers it is very entertaining when a stranger gets within seeing distance and the dogs start barking and all the sirens howl like the dawn chorus spreading along the valleys ....... and all the guys run for their guns . The same happens when the pigs come trying to sneak in on horse back . The berbers dont like it and they fuck them off ...... even to the point of sending their kids who are in the airforce in jets to warn the king ....... wich happened at least twice in the 60s and 70s . One time he was in his jet flying direction europe when he was buzzed by a couple of his own airforce jets over the med . Since then the kings keep their mouths closed and their noses out .

Next ...... the THC in non hash grass grass is in THC form and THCA form . The A standing for acid . That acid has to be decarboxylated to THC to be effective . Thats why a grass cake works better than just eating the grass without heating . The heat of the cookling and / or the smokeing does the decarboxylation .

If one travels to places where tourists dont go in asia or lives on a farm in moroco <------- and there one needs to have LOADS of money or a special relationship with the farmer one can still get real hash <-------- in my very many expeditions to holland starting in 1980 and inspite of going into all the coffee shops recomended by dutch people and buying everything that was said to be good i have NEVER seen real hash in holland or good grass. The last time i saw any was in 1984 as the last good hash from afghanistan that was made before the russians invaded ran out . The prices for that hash were then 20 euros and upwards per gramm . The "hash" that one gets in holland is what the morocans condescendingly call kiff hash or tourist hash . <------ the same goes for "charas" = tourist "hash" .

Marinol does suck as i saw when i was a judge at the high times cup in hamsterdam in 1980 before the judges were irelevant tourist pay for a name and get ripped off dickheads ...... when the judges decided what the best was ...... before the people who could supply the best coke to the high times people got to decide who gets the cup every time ........ anyway there was someone giveing it away free to test . They said more than a few doses would knock one over and were more than suprised when i ate 30 and came back for more . Part of the reason it makes some people paranoid is , from my point of view , because the most people have never had real quality cannabis and when the do ...... and get a near psychedelic experience that lasts all day from one small puff ..... they shit out . < ------ there is no contradiction there i`m just shit atz explaining ------->

It all depends on the experience one has and again because of the dutch / swiss / canadians and the gringos there is little posibility of anyone nowadays getting something to use as a comparison / standard so they can see how crappy the crap is one can get nowadays ...... especialy indoor crap ........ good grass comes from high altitude outdoors .

"What's weird about sedits response is that cannabinoids are our natural antianxiety chemical so it's odd that it doesn't work that way with some people."

People with latent and real mental problems .

"Isopropyl "

Is not recomended because it extracts to much shit , doesnt extract much THC and is next to imposible to get off and is poisonous . Chloraform works the best followed by ether followed by petrol based solvents but chloraform suposedly leaves about 5 % in the end product ....... that can be seen ...... or rather tasted with all solvents when one smokes the oil . Thats the advantage of butain ..... its a gas , its cheep , easily available with little chance of raising suspition and is easy and quick to get off the "oil" wich doesnt like air , light or heat . Butain is also good for larger scale extractions because its no more dangerous than the containers it comes in . By large scale i mean several kilos at a time . Ethyl alcohol is also easy to get / make and the extractions can be done in my experience in 200 liter containers about half full with plant parts ........ thats how the wine was made .




 SO again ..... ethyl alcohol and make a tincture ........  or ...... one of ...... there is another one ....... my gas bomb ideas .

Thanks .I wonder what they mean by cold ? Must be less than room temperature ?. Anyway the books and people i`ve talked to say its an oil . They also say that the pharma industry sells it as an oil is because they cant make it solid  <----------- maybe that means cant keep it solid ? One doesnt know for sure and one will not argue about what one doesnt know for sure .

As far as my bomb idea ....... in school and factory canteens they have BIG  preasure cookers ....... big enough to get a big person in .............. I`ve seen them with a preasure guage on the top and even with a thermometer . Even if they dont have both one could easily fit both and a tap underneath in an afternoon . They are often sold cheep when factorys are closed and would be perfect for the job . Just need a spacer with small holes in it to put underneath the grass to keep the extracted goo free of cannabis and one is ready to go .

The wine / alcohol idea is not bad either ....... remember in the olden days many plant medicines were sold as tinktures and in wine . A friend of mine does it and is a star in the scene and gets invited to all the good private partys cos the wine is so good . Wine is easy to make or one can just powder the goods and put it in strong rum for a few weeks . .......... Try it and see and be suprised ........ if its grass heat it first to cake makeing temperature . One could also make realy cool cakes ....... i used to get a kit from the super market and throw 50 grams of grass in and either eat it all myself or sell it in the park . Twas funny when i entered the park the cry "Space cake" rang out from the potential customers and within a few minutes 20 - 30 - 50 people would gather and have a ball all afternoon and evening .

Grass butter and cooking oil is also easy to make  .

Whatever better than throwing it all away = potential fun and money .


EDIT - Just to show that wiki can be a load of shit sometimes ---->

"Like most pharmacologically-active secondary metabolites of plants, THC in cannabis is assumed to be involved in self-defense, perhaps against herbivores."

If that isnt brain dead i dont know what is ...... animals LOVE cannabis and that would sugest that the THC is in it so that they consume it and thereby spread the seeds ........ remember the THC mainly forms when the plant ripens and has seeds on it . And the word presumed is crap to ...... presumed by who ? certainly not all scientists .

Ha ha, this thread has gone so far afield it reminds me of those distant Moroccan kif farms. Interesting stuff, but quite far from the original subject.

Lone Stranger, I would have to respectfully disagree about the isopropyl, it works very well and doesn't extract chlorophyls, waxes, etc as long as you limit the contact time to two minutes or less. You get a gorgeous clear-red oil that is very potent. It's just that the oil doesn't taste too great because as I said, IPA---at least at the two minute or less contact time---doesn't grab the aromatic terpenes. It probably does if you let the contact time be longer, but then it will also get the crap as well and turn dark green/brown, ruining it.

However, you posted something that is very ontopic:

Butain is also good for larger scale extractions because its no more dangerous than the containers it comes in . By large scale i mean several kilos at a time .

I'd like to hear more about this. How would that be done? That is the root problem for my friend and I:  we are sick of the limited scale of butane extractions the way we (and thousands of other growers) do it, which is the squirting of it from multiple 300 ml cans into a stainless steel pipe packed with trim, collecting the liquid butane in glass pie plates and letting it evaporate. The best idea I've come up with is to modify the aforementioned SS fire extinguisher body so that we can load it with a couple of pounds, and have a receiving valve fitting in the top to take an output valve from an industrial cylinder of butane, and also have an "output nipple" of some kind on the bottom that the liquid butane will exit from. This would simply be a scaling-up of the way we are doing it now. What is the way *you* allude to?

I get the impression that you lot live somewhere on the arse of the world in the colonys ........ here in the "civilised" world we dont only have poxy little fag lighter refill cans we have big fat gas bottles of butain for cooking ....... even the back of the backwoods in moroco has them ........ and one just scales up the operation with bigger pipes and makes a screw lid with with two handles to help screw / unscrew it and a valve in it thats conected to at best a metal pipe from the gas bottle . The pipe has a screw bottom and a spacer screen under the grass . IF one is good one can make a closed capture tank at the bottom to catch the goods with a pipe leading out of the top to another ?......... what ? .............. an EMPTY gas bottle ........ to catch the gas . Should work untill the two tanks preasure equals out ? = several loads depending on the size of the gas bottles ........ cant draw it ...... BUT ..... imagine one o them deep sea divers with a screw on glass / metal helmet . First we turn the fucker upside down and fill his one leg with the goods . Then we conect the gas tank to his leg with a stop cock in between . Where the fuckers neck is we make another stop cock so we can close the captureing container = his head unscrew the helmet and get the goo . The other leg leads to the empty gas bottle again with a stop cock . If one builds valves in each part each part can be turned on and off with the stop cocks and the gas in the legs and the helmet let out by opening the valves in the part one wants to let the gass out as we dont want to get a gush of gas shooting out and either splatering us with goo ...... OR ...... the friction of opening the helmet to blow us ....... me to heaven and you löot down to where you came from ....... = BAD explenation but the idea should be understandable for all you academic fuckers .......  SO ...... that was two posibilitys = with one leg = just scaleing up what youve all been doing and the other with two legs so you can catch the gas ........ If we were all .....SHAKE .......we could construct it in a day cheeply ....... if people can make airated culture tanks then they can do this .  < -------- when i used to grow mushrooms with some friends one of then nicked a piece of a gas pipeline and made a preasure cooker with it about 75 cms wide and long enough so that over 100 1.5 liter kilner jars of grain to sterilise fited in it . One had to stand on a box so that one could fill it . Underneath there was a cast iron wood stove for the heat . The whole thing was electric welded a la ....... gas pipeline ....... and had a preasure guage on the lid .

Personaly one dreams of them big gas tanks some people have to suply all their energy needs for their house in their gardens and doing BIG jobs .......... My % is 10 % in cash , good drugs and / or hetero sex thank you ladys .

And ..... please greet .......Jed ...... Granny ....... Jethro ...... and ..... Elly May and the critters ...... from me



I wanna nuther star for this .................

I just had a memory... I know that don't sound like an achievement to most but it means to me the L-DOPA might just be working who the fuck knows...


However this memory may just save your ass Methyl. Remember where I said about the solid CO2 and placing that in a vessel to reach the required state. Please be careful, i remember someone trying just such a thing over at wet dreams a while back to extract ephedrine. It did not go so well and it shot around like a rocket... Take much care in making sure your container can hold the pressures its going to be put under.