Author Topic: Purity and subjective experience (Read 124 times)

Hawkwind · « **on:** July 12, 2011, 07:52:20 AM »

It is well known that purity of LSD affects the experience, with a properly chromatographed and quadruple-recrystallized dose providing the clear light as opposed to the muddy picture of unreacted lysergic and isolysergic starting materials, side products and byproducts.

A friend who lived on doctor prescribed amphetamines for many years claims the same is true of pharmaceutical amphetamine, dextroamphetamine and dextromethamphetamine, that Desoxyn will take you much faster and further than a somewhat larger dose of relatively pure ephedrine product, etc.

Some oldtimers that were around before p2p was outlawed also claim the same is true of racemic methamphetamine made from very pure phenyl-2-propanone and gassed from ether as compared to that made from commercial 97% Aldrich p2p and similarly crystallized from ether.

Thoughts?

The Lone Stranger · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »

Can only talk from my experience and that of the people who had the same drugs . Clean acid is very different than normal street acid . Also that it has to be freshh and that after about 6 weeks it doesnt do the same .

One was lucky< enough to have had fresh julie acid from two different labs . The one was so fresh the dots werent dry and the trip hit me through the fingers ...... it was one of the strongest trips i`ve had = everyone was burning skeletons and one decided that it would be better not to look at oneself ..... LOL .

I`ve also heard from old time chemists that the methopd used to make some drugs and the size of the batch can have an effect on the effects .

jon · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:30:30 AM »

it's real simple the impurities and isomers have similar structures and plug up the same receptors.

Hawkwind · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2011, 05:58:41 AM »

Thanks, that is a simple and probably correct explanation. I hadn't thought about it in relation to phenethylamines.

There is something to be said for vacuum-jacketed fractionating columns and fraction cutters and such.

Waggledance · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2011, 02:14:10 PM »

Probably a bit late on this one but jon is right, 'similar structures' will bind to the same receptor as 'the intended molecule'. Binding kinetics mean that a drug will bind then unbind giving time for the 'similar structures' that have entered the brain to bind and have a small effect. When the 'similar structures' bind and unbind they can cause a change in receptor conformation that lasts a few milliseconds, this changes how the 'intended molecule' will bind and illicit an effect and as a result the perceived experience can be changed. All and all a number of factors affect how purity or lack there of will affect the experience.

I remember a lecturer once talking about how molecular interactions between a drug and the molecules around it can affect the way it binds, this is important for all binding as water surrounds and fills receptor and enzyme cavities contributing hydrogen bonds, however he claimed that it was possible for other 'chemicals' to be dragged along with a drug. Say for example small amounts of DCM where locked up in the crystal structure of MDMA, when it is absorbed the DCM follows the MDMA to the brain and effects its binding characteristics resulting in a different "high". I suspect that this may contribute to the differences perceived in dirty vs clean MDMA (as well as other impurities with similar structures to MDMA being dragged along too.)

NeilPatrickHarris · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2011, 12:24:57 PM »

yes, the solvent used for crystallization finds itself in the crystal lattice of the product as Waggledance said.

in regards to solvents - mdma gassed from toluene has a noticeably different effect from water/hcl titrated mdma if neither are recrystallized afterward.

in regards to impurities - dirtier mdma that smells of safrole/isosafrole/ketone has a noticeably different effect than mdma that has gone through the proper a/b, acetone washes, and freebase distillation or salt recrystallization. the purer compound comes on much harder, much faster, with a noticeable strong warmth radiating from the chest then spreading through the whole body, time slows down psychedelic-style as well during the come-up and light effects are enhanced more, overall much more intense however it has much more mental clarity so you feel less "fucked up." the more impure mdma though, has been reported in self-performed double blind studies with friends that they prefer the more impure stuff 100% of the time. the less pure stuff is a little weaker weight-wise and is more comparable to a typical "high potency mdma pressed pill" and the typical mdma effects. whereas super-pure mdma is just on a whole other level. i prefer the super-pure mdma, it is more visual at a lower dose as well yet maintains ridiculous mental clarity. everyone answered with the same exact reason when asked "why did you prefer this one" they said the other one (the more pure one, but they were unaware of them being different, they reported their own subjective effects after being told it was the same batch but then asked about differences - everyone came to the same conclusion - about 6 people, not all of them took it in the presence of each other). anyway they answered that the super-pure batch was "too clean" feeling, it felt so natural/clean they didn't feel fucked up enough. yet the physical and visual effects were enhanced and i noticed more "i love you's" with insane nystagmus on the super-pure stuff whereas they nodded out a bit more on the less pure stuff.

jon · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2011, 02:26:56 PM »

ever take so much mdma you reek of it everywhere you go?

Waggledance · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2011, 06:29:36 AM »

Can't say I have, how much are we talking here? I assume it would be a decent amount in order to smell it!

hypnos · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2011, 08:43:12 AM »

"it's real simple the impurities and isomers have similar structures and plug up the same receptors"

Yeah..and if they Work well in Any positive recreational aspect, they're call "analogues!"

Author Topic: Purity and subjective experience (Read 124 times)

Hawkwind

Purity and subjective experience

The Lone Stranger

Re: Purity and subjective experience

jon

Re: Purity and subjective experience

Hawkwind

Re: Purity and subjective experience

Waggledance

Re: Purity and subjective experience

NeilPatrickHarris

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jon

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Waggledance

Re: Purity and subjective experience

hypnos

Re: Purity and subjective experience