Author Topic: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome  (Read 56 times)

Bardo

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MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« on: August 16, 2011, 01:39:27 AM »
It is relatively easy to legally release lots of serotonin mainly by using an MAOI with a serotonin producing monoamine but every where I read (including drug forums) say don't do it due to potentially fatal serotonin syndrome. Is it that big of deal? I mean we are not suppose to do something legally what many illegal products like MDMA and MDA do at great amounts? Does this mean the legal way could produce far greater affects? I keep looking into an MAOI, SSRI, and a monoamine like 5-htp combo but everywhere says don't do it. I don't get it, is this legal combo more dangerous then the illegal MDA or MDMA??? I know there is lots of literature on this, and I have read lots of it, but I'd like your guys' opinion.

Tsathoggua

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Re: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 05:09:27 PM »
Absofuckinglutely...this goes WAY beyond dangerous...this is stepping into 'likely to be lethal' territory.

Do not go here, just do not bother thinking about it..well, not beyond learnin the details of pharmacology/neurochemistry in order to do better at what you aim for. Its an easy way to land yourself in hospital...which PART of the hospital is more unpredictable. If you are able to get there in the first place that is.

Toady's other half got herself inadvertantly inflicted by 5HT syndrome thanks to a sudden, unpredictable interaction between sumatriptan, and an SSRI (fluvoxamine), and she ended up incapacitated, lying on the floor in agony, thinking she was going to die that day. She was unable to summon help from her kids. Don't do this...you might not get the chance to be more careful ex post facto. And if you do NOT die, you will wish you had.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Bardo

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Re: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 09:48:46 PM »
So taking MDMA or MDA releases enough serotonin to feel great but combining legal MAOI's like St. Johns Wort, Yohimbine, and/or Harmaline with legal serotonin releasers like 5-htp and tryptophan releases too much? Wouldn't it just be about finding the right dosage then?

I can do the same thing with dopamine safely (GABA and phenibut) since dopamine doesn't regulate so many bodily function but I would like to activate serotonin as well.

salat

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Re: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 10:23:30 PM »
Releasing Serotonin is one thing but keeping it from being disposed of is another.  And Yohimbine can do some really nasty stuff to you via your adrenal receptors.

And where did you get the crazy idea that legal vs illegal had anything to do with the dangers involved in a drug???

Salat
Salat

Bardo

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Re: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 10:48:43 PM »
Legal prescriptions kill over 500,000 people a year, illegal kill a fraction of that, I never had the idea of legal being safer. But you would think that a person should not be able to walk into GNC and walk out with two legal products when combined can do more damage then the supposed evil demonic soul stealing illegal substances.... And for keeping it being disposed being another matter really isn't when you consider there are reversible MAOI's and irreversible ones. Again it would seem to me to be a matter of dosage so as not to approach serotonin syndrome. I have taken too much MDA as I'm sure others here have too (uh um jon, *cough *cough) and serotonin syndrome has not come into play. I would think with the right dosage you could control it with legal stuff as well.

Tsathoggua

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Re: MAOI's and Serotonin Syndrome
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2011, 02:33:07 AM »
There is  no logic to be found within drug legislation, at least not associated with drug use or safety. Those government and prison owning fuckwits don't give a shit about people dying in the gutter, or innocent people getting fucked over when they are inside. Its an industry, more or less, they don't care about fuckin' justice, you may as well get that idea out of your head sooner rather than later.

As for the idea of using tryptophan or 5HTP to release serotonin...there is a LOT more to the entactogens than mere serotonin release, and its dependent WHERE its released, not just on how quantity. Try hitting, selectively, the 3HT3 receptors for instance, and see what happens. (3HT3 is involved in nausea and vomiting. Antagonists at this receptor are used as chemo drugs to prevent nausea and throwing up)

Fuck about with yohimbine..and you will be sorry. It will just make you feel like shit and probably cause akathisia. Not nice. Likely risk of hypertensive crisis, and possibly fatal outcome.

In rats, IIRC, a combination of a MAOI and 5HTP has been used to test cures for serotonin syndrome....thats what they do to CAUSE it. So no...you won't end up with an MDxx experience, you will end up with a morgue experience, or hell sans the dying to go there bit.

(if your religious....if not, then its just..hell anyway, bugger that, trust me..do NOT go there....abandon any ideas about justice when it comes to getting nicked for drugs by the filth. It has got sod all to do with that. Its about them getting rich by sucking the carcasses of inncent bees and other people dry.

5HTP and tryptophan aren't serotonin release agents either, well, truth told I have not just gone and read a bunch of papers to prove it, but their primary effect is as neurotransmitter precursors. Tryptophan gets metabolized into 5HTP by tryptophan hydroxylase, then 5HTP gets decarboxylated to serotonin.

Don't do it to try....I know something similar has been done with L-DOPA and carbidopa by some more or less termianal junky parkinsons patients abusing their meds...and it caused a tolerance, as well as dyskinesias quickly anyway, but do it with 5HTergic drugs and it will very likely hospitalise you. with adrenaline/noradrenaline, again, hypertensive crisis, not a rush, is the result.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.